E57 - Nic Russell - Kenzie's Gift

Today’s guest is an extraordinary woman whose story is one of resilience, purpose, and finding strength through the ocean swimming and the swim community. Kenzie's Gift was founded by Nic following the loss of her three-year-old daughter, Kenzie. Rather than allowing tragedy to define her, Nic has dedicated herself to supporting families facing childhood trauma and serious illness through the charity’s incredible work. Along the way, Nic has faced her own significant health challenges, including a heart transplant and living with Parkinson’s disease. Through it all, swimming and time in the ocean have become a source of healing, perspective, and sanity. This November, SwimScape will be hosting the 12 x 1 Mile Challenge in support of Kenzie's Gift, raising vital funds and awareness for the families the charity serves. Nic’s journey is a powerful reminder of the human spirit’s ability to endure, adapt, and give back, even in the face of life's greatest challenges. We're honoured to have her with us today to share her story. 

Transcript

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Welcome back to Swimscape Podcast. Apologies for the long break, we got quite busy over the summer as we're helping Jono Riddler and his world record swim down the east coast of the North Island. We'll catch up with Jono at some stage in the future and give you the whole story. But this episode is about something different. In this episode we talk to Nick Russell. Nick is an amazing lady and so positive, which is really stunning when you hear what she's been through. She runs a charity called Kenzie's Gift that supports young people who are going through grief, which might be through the loss of a sibling or a parent. Kenzie was Nick's daughter, who passed away from cancer at three years old, about 20 years ago. But Nick started this charity despite dealing with her own cancer because she wanted to support young people. Swimming was one of the ways that she dealt with what life has thrown at her. Now spoiler alert, there's much more that's happened with Nick's life, so just keep on listening and it's amazing she keeps on smiling. So here we go. Welcome to another Swimscape podcast and this podcast we're talking to Nick. Is Nick is it? It is indeed it is Nick. Are you getting Nick? I wouldn't be getting told off. But I don't want to be told off, I get enough of that. Okay so Nick, so we normally just start off by asking you to tell us a little bit about your swim story and then we'll see how the podcast goes from there. Right. Well my swim story starts back in Northern Ireland and I grew up beside the ocean and I'm carnivored lock and the water temperature was somewhat chillier than the Aucklands water temperature. Oh yeah. And but it was more just for pleasure and a bit of fun but I always loved the water. I mean it came to New Zealand. I'd always like this swim the harbor and I think Scott, gosh it's not Scott. Scott, right? He started it. It is. It is what I do. It's not Scott. Scott's name went out my middle age brain there for a moment. I always wanted to do it but I was living on more than a tap at Ireland at the time and I knew that was out of the question until I moved into the into the city. So I moved into the city I thought, yeah I can do that. That would be no problem at all, I'm fit and then realised swimming is a whole lot different than just running proper swimming because whenever I was taught to swim in Ireland I was taught swim with my head out of the water and my take leave was completely shite. So I had to go and have some wonderful swimming lessons again to swim properly. And when we went to do the swim challenge with Scott that first day on the M, we were down at Bay's where it was the start of that year. And Scott comes casually over the MC going, now there's just been some orcus in the Bay. They're not known to Bay of any danger to humans but this is your chance to step out and not go or continue. We continued and that was the start of my proper swimming, ocean swimming in New Zealand. I actually did it for Kenzie's gift at that time because Bob will talk about Kenzie's gift in a little bit. But I really enjoyed my swimming and then we, I was part of the Daimport Swim Club for many years and we did, I did most of Scott's ocean swim series, it was really a well-run event and it was a good thing to get into, I was never going to be a marathon so many grown your ultramarathons like John Huston be swimming the whole way around the country. But they inspire me, I just love the water and I love seeing what swimmers are doing in New Zealand and we've got some amazing bodies of water to swim in, like you know, you know, using a tapo like it's called a swam tapo leg just, you know, a little kilometre of it. But people that could do 42 kilometres over and out, it's just so inspiring. But Kiwis kind of accomplished, the Kiwis swimming community is amazing and yeah, so that's why I'm so, but after swimming, doing my ocean swims for a couple of years I went into hard failure and so that put pay to any of that type of shenanigans and then you got partner since. So my swimming knife, I'm not allowed to swim in a public pool because of my immune system that was told absolutely you cannot swim in a public pool but you can swim in the ocean. It's so long as we don't have red alerts and black alerts but I'm only allowed to swim in the ocean now. So my swimming is probably about 250 metres depending what my body decides to do and the given day partner since could sometimes play nice or sometimes it won't and my neurologist said swimming is the hardest thing for a parkie to do because you have so many body, you know, components going together to coordinate to swim properly. So some days later the body is facing so I have to stand up and an aqua jog and then the body will start coordinating itself again and I'll go again. So it's all this complex stuff but still I swim. I love the ocean and I love New Zealand waters then so yeah, there's a whole bunch of stuff going on there. Kenzie's gift park and since hard failure, is that why you hate towing people? Yes, that's why my heart turned purple. I was just trying to figure that out, it's all about me and I need to be attention sick and so why do I just make my hair purple? Cool, that's a wonderful story, I remember that harbour crossing actually, I'm pretty sure I was there as well because I remember that, the whole orca. Well I think we all did, as much as we want to see orcas in the wild, I didn't really want to be swimming aside, I wanted to be fair. Yeah, I think we've all been there. So they say orcas have never attacked any humans right, but unless you're in an amusement park or whatever it was in America, they have actually attacked humans. Well, there shouldn't be an amusement park, it's not what they're supposed to be. And I think people have come across orcas in the way they're more curious, unless you're living in the northern hemisphere where they're attacking bolts and I have to call for it and that's been an interesting discussion, the science behind that one of the way they are attacking bolts. Yes, in Portugal there was a whole bunch of them. Yeah, I know this is a side issue, but I think some hypothesis is that over COVID, they thought this was lovely, there was no noise in the world because there's so many bolts and stuff around and they really got to enjoy it. And then they've realised the bolts are the cause of it. Noise or maybe, you know, because they're smart animal maybe a bolt, injured one of them, you just don't know and that's their revenge, the orca, who knows, but it's quite an interesting thing going on. But that's not used to me, we digress, I want to do that. Yes, so leaving on from that, we're looking at doing some swims to support Kenzie's gift and I thought this would be a wonderful time for you to tell us and all of our listeners a little bit, a little bit about Kenzie's gift, it's quite a story that you've got we'd love to hear it. Oh, thank you Jim and thank you Duncan. So Kenzie's gift, so my story pretty much stems back from whenever I was out on the top of Ireland, I had two little kitties, Kenzie and Connor, Kenzie got seriously second sort of die in 2005, we both got diagnosed with cancer, and tragically Kenzie died at the end of that year at age three and my life fell to pieces, it's something that that's been my defining moment, there was life before and there was life after, but what we found at the time was there was no mental health support for children and young people and for the parents of the how do we deal with grief when something's gone off like this, what we say to children, what we say to parents, how do you explain that to them? So we set up Kenzie's gift to support the mental health of our young Kiwis, whose parent or sibling has died or has a serious illness in the family, because it's often the unspoken family, and it's, and grief is a lonely sport, you know people tend to avoid you because they don't know what to say, we all want to fix it, it's really really hard and you can't fix it, what you need is useful humans, whenever this has happened to you, you need people that will walk beside you, that will be there, that will maybe take on the life admin for you, and annoying that there's an organisation there, like Kenzie's gift that will help with the top conversations, and that's what we're about, so today we've supported over 7,000, and we're a small charity, you know what I mean, it's got a part-time crew maybe, maybe one of them got another contract, we're all running on a shoestring budget, we'll be punched up our weight, and it's like last year where you supported, was it 150 children with direct therapy, with over 3,000 sessions, and that's a lot of money, you know, and it's huge, and instead of doing this part-time, we've got 40 clinical psychologists and therapists during the country now, they get triage, we have our doctor of clinical site triage, as the family says, they come in, we've got resources that we deliver to hospitals, palliative care, periodic intensive care unit at Starchship, so our resources are really valued because they've been written by clinical psychologists, they're based on evidence, they're not well intended, but they actually, and it's a nod to our key weed culture as well, so we'd be very fortunate to have grown your moss, the formidable grown your moss, who's been doing her big ultramartha swims and being supporting Kansas gift, and it's, yeah, I think we've all got this connection with water, and I think for me, for me personally, water on the big blue has been good for my mental health through all of this, you know, I did need support to, you know, continue my life and function and everything, but in no other given morning, if I go down to the sea, and just get in there, you never have a bad swim, you never regret a swim, and so has kept me growing, so in life is really shit and really hard, you know, there's something with swimming, and that's what I think, you know, with what was being, I reckon you should make your head blue, yeah, instead of being big, that's next year's colour, yeah, yeah, so interesting point right, you sort of touched on how people don't know how to approach a situation like that, if somebody passes away or if somebody's going through a tough time, it's often easy to acknowledge, and then just try to move on, because you don't want to unpack it, and you don't know how to deal with it, and I mean, how should people deal with it, you know, what are you all, I think words don't fix it, but I mean people often say, how are you doing today, it's much easier to say how you're managing today, you know what I mean, because it's not, because how you're doing would have wanted to be shit, right, and some people avoid, you know, maybe not bringing your loved ones name up, but say they're name, they want to know who that person wants, you want to keep their memory alive, so don't be afraid to speak their name, some people, I think we all go off, we say something, we're going to upset them, they're upset anyhow, their loved one isn't with them anymore, so we just speak them, because we all like to share our memories, if you think if an older person dies, you love hearing the crack and the stories and the memories about them are, yes, if their friend, well, gosh, that was a wonderful thing to hear, because you love to hear them, and it's like when somebody will often say to me, if I've met someone new, for example, and we've got into conversation and it turns out, they're a child, they're a partner, they're a daughter, someone died in their history, the first thing I'll ask is what was their name, what were they like, and you can see that all of them are like the smile, like something they love storytelling, they love happy memories, they've done, I've met many adults who, whose parent died whenever they were, we're spoken about, and the legs that's left with them, no, you know, I mean, so I think it's not being afraid to turn up, and the thing is, I've heard the pleasure, because you can't, we'll often say things well intended, but quite hurtful, and I think so's, avoid those, it's more better to say, I'm here, find the bossy friend, for example, if something's just happened, I press this happen, it's find the boss friend, I'm going, okay, look, I don't know what to do, but I want to help, because you can't ask, press well, just call out if you need any help, well no, you're not going to do that, but you've always, I've got, I had boss friends, and they had everybody organized, they leaned into, well she's, she likes to cook, she's useless, right, we'll get you to leave meals around, right, okay, you're a good entertainer, right, you can keep negligible entertainers, or you like walking, well you can go out for a walk with them, or you're the skilled one, you're good with the kids, right, you can do that, and then they, delegation, the delegation, and then because it's a life admin takes place, and then you can be with it, and you can walk and you walk and talk, or lean into what, but you can get you through each day, you want them from the other, because it won't be tough, but as I said, we need useful humans, we don't need platitudes, we don't need words, we need people to turn up, I'm not, I was the stupid guy at the back of the class, what's a platitude? Well, if somebody says, it sounds like a father dinner in a buffet. Well, it's like, if somebody would say to you, or they're in a better place, no, yes, and it's just like a, you're saying something just to, or are you, the other one you get is unsolicited, wellness advice, unless you know that person, don't say, have you tried this, yes, just have tried this, you know what I mean, every time I've been diagnosed with something, I will get that wonderful piece of advice coming from someone, and they all want to, you know, advise, because you want to feel useful, but don't do that, you know what I mean, because it's like, they haven't been on the road, unless you know that person, if your person's into that, you know, lifestyle, whatever, and once that, yes, by all means, but if you know that person, and if you don't know that person well enough, don't do it. Well, that's one of the life lessons I've learned is that, you know, all your advice should be kept to yourself, because, you know, it's seldom works, yeah, at least somebody asked you, yeah, just keep it to yourself, yeah, and it's a said useful humans, do something useful, you know what I mean, that's, and whatever your skill set is, if you're, if you're not the cook, don't believe in me, you know, that's not what your thing is, but if you lean into what you're good at, you know what I mean, and it's, and even it's a thoughtful, like what I often do is, I'll ask when their, their loved ones birthday was, I'll find it when their death date was, put that in my phone straight away, every year it rolls around, it's just, it's just a little text going, thinking of you today, just thinking of you, you're not asking them a question, I've got to ask a question, oh god, I've got to answer that, never send someone a question, just say, I'm thinking of you today, no need for response, just checking in, you know, mean all those type of things just randomly, that's good love advice, that's really good advice, because those type of things means I care, someone's thinking of me, so you don't have to turn up with a big bunch of flowers or anything else, it's just that they're thinking of me and make hair, they've sold us today, it's a nice, it's a nice gesture, so they work on my wife's birthday and Valentine's Day, I think she wants a bit more for you, I think a text message is going to fail, I really like that advice, you know, just, you don't have to ask them a question, just being there, because you know, that question, yeah, it kind of implies that they have to do something, which I find that after transplant, three days after transplant, people were bombarding me with messages, my brain's completely fried, and it was fried for a bit six weeks afterwards, and I hadn't got the word of thought to answer questions, but others were going, just a little say, just thinking of you, and no question, they didn't want to know, they weren't asking me questions, because I couldn't respond, I mean, because your brain really has to, it's quite muddled, and the same whenever you've got efforts, if there's been a death or a bit as a serious illness, your brain is so fragile, that's another thing, as you said, to do, to think about, I've got to answer that, because then if you don't answer, you feel obligated to, because you think they're going to think I'm rude, you know, I mean, if you don't respond, but it's never asked the question, just the thought. So one question, you know, what we've just been talking about, in my mind, means how you would interact with adults, but you're doing a lot of work with children, so if you were to come across, you know, a family or a child that was going through tough times, what would you do in this sort of same way, or how would you react differently, because they're going to be approaching and dealing with things differently, or is it all on a case-by-case basis? Well, I think, with when it comes to children, honestly, it's always the best approach, but you've got to remember the age of the child, and it's given them the language, explains to them the language that they can understand when they're ready for it. Never lie, because they know they've been lied to, and it's never used your chromosomes either, so we use the D language, death, dying, died, you know what I mean, it sets them, because they don't understand, they've gone to sleep, passed away, lost, lost, well, there could be in the warehouse, and got lost around, so what do you mean they're lost, so we can find them again, so that's which is used in that everyday language, and the thing that's why we've got lots of resources on the Kentyskiff website, and how to do that in simple terms, and it's, you know, it's really simple, easy language, and like children are often, they show, don't tell, younger children, teenagers are different, because they're short through play, and that's where they'll often role-play it out, how they're feeling, and stuff, they'll often find in their drawings, how they're expressing themselves, so it's different from others where we would have a chart, one on one, able to teenagers, as many of us know, when you have one conversation with a teenager, it's like, go in the car, go out for a walk, but don't sit down, have expect a conversation, they'll not open up that way, and it's just, you know, that you're, that you're here for them, so children are different, but it's always, and not every Chinese therapy either, you know what I mean, it's just, it's, like, with Conor, for example, I'll show you what happened with Conor, so I was a hospital play specialist, so my career had been working in the hospitals, you know, explaining tough medical things to children, so ironically I had this skill set whenever this happened to Conor, so I'm Kenzie, so whenever Kenzie went into pediatric intensive care, so she'd gone through a year of her cancer treatment, and she got saps as soon as she was in the pediatric intensive care unit, so I was bearing Conor in to say his sister, but I took photographs of the machines first, and sat him outside and said that, and showed him the photographs of what Kenzie looked like, so he wouldn't be shocked, and explained to her that her body was really struggling to work at the minute, and it needed her rest, and these machines were helping her rest to hopefully try and recover, so that was one thing, so he could say it, it was hard, and it was sad, but he was part of it, he was part of the family, so no part then could he, you know, not know what was going on, because he'll take that through because that'll put, whenever she was dying, he was part of that as well, whenever the body came home, you know, he was part of that, he got to see her body, he touched her body, he asked questions, when she's cold now, why is she cold, and I explained Conor well, the way I explained to a five-year-old child was, Kenzie's body's like a car, some cars you get, they keep going forever and ever, some cars crash, and you get a doctor to fix it, and some cars are just lemons, and they keep breaking down, so Kenzie got a lemon, her body wouldn't work for her, so the analogy was between, you know, your soul and your body, that was the analogy I used for him, but at all points of that experience, he was part of it, you know, he was part of the whole thing, family was there to be with him, he still had, the Conor maybe wouldn't, you know, have five minutes with sister, then when he wants to go out and play or go off to the park, because children will do that, they'll flit in and out between it, and that's normal, you know what I mean, but it's just being open to their cues whenever they're ready for, but not bombarding them, but they're part of the family, we're so wrapped in our own grief, it's making sure people are there for them as well, because we call them the silent grief, because they'll also want to protect their parents, so they'll often won't say anything, because they'll see maybe the parents, or the family members will have said, so that's why whenever, you know, our therapists are really good that way, you know, stepping in, but not every child needs therapy, you know what I mean, it's just, I should know, actually this is a tough time in your family life, these are the tools you need to get through it, and you may be doing really well as a family, as best as you can, and you will come through it, you know, but yeah, but it's like, we then were doing the, and to give you an idea about how Connor was doing, shortly after Kenzie Dowd, I was doing the her septum campaign here in New Zealand, so that was advocating for a breast cancer drug that was required, and about six weeks or eight weeks after Kenzie Dowd, we were taken up, but decided we would take a pink cough and down to parliament, to showcase so many women in New Zealand dying each year because they haven't got access to this drug, so he thought, right, well, the woman were coming to my house and we were painting this cough and up at my house when Connor was at school, and he was supposed to be an applied year after school, and I, fun was in the house, and I thought, right, so before he comes home, we'll have this out of sight, so he won't be traumatised after considering his care, his sister should study at school. So the next thing we had this cough and all up on the table, a next thing, the gate went, and what's Connor with a chemo or a pair, nice one. Jesus, the next in our face, we just went, how to stroke, and Connor said, going, oh, mom, my cough, and can I get in it? I was like, so we had to maneuver this cough and down, and he wanted to end it, and he wanted his cousin, just the way he was, and I thought, like, we were really worried that he had been traumatised, it was all part of life and death, and Connor is aware of that even as a young sister was adjusted to the process, of life and death, and he got exposed to it really early, but again, by being always open, because the conversations flowed as he got older, so we're just always open about unhonest, about these conversations. Yeah, that's probably the best advice for you, any problem in life, right? You got Kenzie's gift, focuses on children or on the family unit? We focus on three to 24-year-olds, we do support parents where we don't offer therapy to parents, but we will support them in the parent degree and how they can support the children, and there's other wonderful organisations that are there for parents, and I think that's again, we had to focus where our intent was, but it is looking at the whole, if the parents aren't functioning well, I mean the child isn't gone, so they have to be well supported as well, but the therapist do give them, you know what advice and how to parent and stuff and that, but we don't offer the therapy to them, but it is for the kiddies, and that's how I'm in focus, really. That's amazing, yeah, it's amazing work that you're doing, yeah, it's, it's, yeah, and Kenzie learned to swim before she passed. Or she loved the water, yeah, yeah, well I am much tougher, Ireland. We, the both the kids were, were I don't want to stop at Ireland, and even whenever we, we had to move in to time whenever she got sick, and the last memory we had of her at the beach was probably a week before she got, she had to go, before she got the saps, so she just come out from having her last round of chemo, and we're down at Naurinec Beach, and her and Connor were down, and he had stripped off to his own place, and she was in a correct cuffuffle, she wanted stripped off, because she wanted to get into the water, and because she couldn't walk, but she loved her legs being thrown about in the water, the juices, you in and out of the water, and her giggling and laughing in her just in absolute paradise, and that was the thing about Kenzie whenever, and I'm not making a cliche over it, but I think she taught me more about living than any adult ever has, because it was that, and it's the immediacy of children, where they live their life, they're not worrying so much as adults what we do, where we, where of course we've got to pair bells and what is this implication mean, and we've got all these responsibilities that child doesn't have, but in their immediacy they, they just live it, she wanted to be alive, she embraced it, and that's, and they think even that's what Connor knows, has even a 26, because the best way he can honor her is to live the best life he can have, and I think that's where I sit as well, life is hard, I'm not done playing it, life is always stressful with the socks and downs, and it's not easy, and, but a thing is just finding those little habits every day that can get you functioning through, and, and, and when the dark clouds pass, you do get sunlight, you know, it was Kenzie, it's Kenzie the full name, Mackenzie Aaron, Mackenzie, yeah, so we've shown it to Kenzie, yeah, that's cool, so you've had a, a, a bit of help, sort of, along the way, and we just talked about granium, maybe you can tell us a little bit about yourself and gran year and, and, so, yeah, well it was actually, this is New Zealand being, being small and coming around full circle, I first met grania, I was actually, I'd come off on a topic for the day, I used to have needed, needed my sonny day, my wiggly sonny day, pregnant into into Auckland, I used to go to tackle Puna Poole, so I put the kitties in the creation, came into the Poole to have a swim, and she used to, and I forget my togs, and, like, there's no way going back to, more to tap her, to create the great set of togs, I'm growing her, having to be in the pool, and she had a spare set of togs, so she let me, she let me, well she never got them by, of course, I've set togs, that I gratefully took from her, so I wasn't swimming in tackle Puna Poole, Newdy, and the thing would have been arrested, so yeah, and then over the years we, we had mutual friends and mutual colleagues, and stuff, so we met through the years, and whenever I first did a winter swim for Kenzie's gift, because it always had to be quite, with not having a big fundraising team or a big budget, because me and my budget for fundraising is like, you know, a couple of times a day, so you're trying to put things all together and get all this word out, so you're trying to be salvin, and so I decided, I would, whenever I'd gone into heart failure, actually, I said to my cardiologist, look, can I go watch them, because I was always an adventure shaker, and I said, yeah, just do it carefully, just keep going, but yeah, so I started swimming, I went down to the beach in the first of June, and I thought, oh, show my, set up, I give a little page in there, it's down, and just, you know, showcase this, and I took off, we ended up raising about 16 or 18,000, I thought, God, that was great, but I knew the next year would have to do something a bit different, so it's, so I set up the Winter Swim Challenge, and I'll wind it up, you know, to all of us, and hopefully all of us would do it, so I messaged Grona, because the news she was got, she had the Wellington Swimmers done there, so I would end up if you're Wellington Swimmers like to do the Winter Swim Challenge, and she percolated with it, and then Grona had just started up her marathon swimming again, and then that's why then she thought, actually, whenever I'm doing this, I'm doing these swims anyhow, I'm making for Ken, she's gifted, and she's kindly done that, now, so I think Grona's raised us nearly, over the last few years, of doing her swims, has brought in about 50,000 of the last five years, she's been amazing, still people getting behind Grona, and it's 120, 50, 100 dollars, whatever they feel, the horse swims are worth, and, you know, to help, like, our Kiwi kids, I mean, it's a huge, it makes a huge difference to us, there's an organisation that said, we're a little, we don't have government funding, and all that big, big cash, and big, you know, regular, don't have big corporate partners, it's a little small grassroots thing, it's punching above us when, and our auditor last year, we've got a new auditor, and he said, no, I just can't believe what you're delivering, you know, on such a, you know, you're in a competition, so I was good, when you hear an auditor telling you that, you're going, fjoo, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's still I'm good enough to say, you know, half half to Grona, yeah, yeah, yeah, half half to Grona, and all of, yeah, everything that you do, yeah, yeah, yeah, so, so we, we supported, of Swimscape supported Grona on the Auckland Triple Crown, not something like that, yes, and you were on the boat, acting as a second, I was, have you been a second before? No, that was my first time, I loved it, I loved it, tell us about that, what, what, what were your expectations and how different was it? Well, my expectations was sort of shutting myself, because the briefing line was much, so I got, right, so I'm doing like, feats, okay, right, so it's like, thankfully, my cockpit was on the boat, yeah, it's like going, so I followed sort of, his leave when it came to the feats and stuff, but I hadn't got to think what I was doing, and, um, I don't know how you knew what you were doing, yeah, I thought so, I don't know how to speak. Well, I wish I could have been, you know, it's, I'm going to say, if I get to your megapixel, yeah, yeah, something, and, um, it was brilliant actually, and just, like, we, I could just watch Grona all day, it's just like this whole day, my only concern was, of course, the toileting at shoot boys, it's, um, yeah, but with you, I have a board, and we're short of that, yeah, we've got to record those, but yeah, but no, it was really good, and being able to be part of that, you know, same Grona's preparation from early morning, you know, getting up early, getting, getting a, feats ready, you know, getting, getting a, getting a great stop, and, you know, on the boat, and, you know, you're sort of wondering what's going through an athlete's mind, before this type of swims, if it was me, I'd be, I'd be having a complete, losing the complete head, all together with Grona's just so, well, I can't speak for Grona's head, but, you know, I mean, just, she's so composed, and just, and then she goes, and it's just, you're just watching this, I'll take, go, and go, and go, and go, and keep that pace, and you're going, my goodness, and, and how then, like, feeding every, every 30 minutes, and needing to save paid as well, there's no, there's no hiding your, your, your, your bodily functions, there's no new marathon swimming, and it's, yeah, I'm being a part of that accomplishment over, I'm seeing someone do three swims over four days, big swims out, we're going, geez, you know, it was just phenomenal, really. She's, she's pretty hardcore, man. That's very cool. Yeah. So, we are going to try our very best to try and raise some, funds and some awareness, let's look at this gift, with our charity swim in November, which is the 12 by one mile. Last year, we, we worked with Mike King, and I am hope foundation, and we did a little, a little sort of spill, I don't know if that's a word, dude, that's like a sort of everything, for, for men, men's, men's labs met up. No, men have feelings too, was, was our tagline. But yeah, I think we're super excited to get involved with, with Ken's gift for, for the season, and if anyone's listening to this podcast, come and swim, if you're not swimming, donate. We'll support the swimmer that you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Next, going to let us know how, how we do that, in the next week or two, with regards to fundraising pages, and all of that stuff, I mean, and you've got a team behind you that helps you with all of us, or is this just you? Oh, no, it's not me. We've, we've, we've got a small time that we contract in Simon, does, they, does the website's for us, which is really good. So, at some, he does them unresely for us, so we can tailor them, which is really great. We've got a couple of young social media, digital marketing people again, a few hours each week, you know what I mean, they're, they're, they're the brains beside that, so things, and I'm, I'm conducting, between conducting this, I'm conducting therapists, I'm conducting development resources, conducting whatever. Yeah. And it's like, so you're sort of at this, you know, sort of you've got all these balls in one place, and it's like, yeah, and even your mind on track, it's like, yeah, because my mind can go, it's like, you're juggling so much stuff. Yeah. But yeah, you, you're gonna at least dip, of course. Of course. Yes. So we'll be there. I can't be there cheering them all on. Yeah, and they will get into the water. I may not be swimming, am I? Because, oh, probably, my part, you've been like, I might be, might be swimming about, be a hundred meters. A hundred yards, there should be a hundred yards. We might chuck you in the IRB and make you like head laugh God for the day or something. Oh, that sounds good to me. Yeah. Yeah. Head cheerleader. Head, head for trouble for it. There will be lots of holes. Yeah, it's social media, because it's doing going to social media for that day. That's really good. Yeah. We're going to just hope that we get decent weather. Yeah. Because we also do it whether it's rain or sunshine. Yeah. And if it's a, if it's a, a sort of lousy day out there, it's a, yeah, it's a, it's a long day. But it's, it's for a good cause. And, you know, we, we sort of have, I think last year, we had about 45 swimmers, like, literally going out on our, our every hour swimmer in a mile, which is, which is a long day. And we'll definitely need some help, you know, in terms of getting, getting guys warmed up and coffeeed up and, and, and smiles back on their face in between. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll hopefully get to know you guys a little bit better. You and your team. Yes. We'll be on the day. We'll volunteer, cause there's lots of swimmers here when it comes to winter that swim with me as well. Yes. We love to come down and cheer on people that are really the get behind the charity. That's what we can really do. Cause we really appreciate everybody's efforts. Yes. It's small, large, whatever they can do. It means, it, it makes a, it makes a huge impact for, cause, my children, they're living with it for life, you know, on a man and it's, and the referrals that we get through every week, you know, I mean, and, and, and most of the questions we, we get asked, it's like, my wife's just died. How do I tell the kids? You know, I mean, this is quite common, you know, on a man and it's our, our, our, our child is dying. These are tough questions and these tough things to do with, and they're living with it. There are loads that have been upended. So I think for people to go out and have a, have a swim and get really cold and, and really work, the body's really hard. That means a hell of a lot to us. It means a hell of a lot. So we really do appreciate you putting your bodies through it. But you are making a huge, big difference today to the loads of us. I still think we're doing the easy part, right? Complete to what all those families are going through and all of those kids are going through. This one is the easy part, right? Well, and, and I think, you know, anybody listening to this, you don't have to do 12 by one mile. You know, even if you do one by one mile, it's, it's fine. You know, if you're up for it, if you're up to doing more, or just come and pull up a deck chair and support to your point, bring a, bring a flask and some coffee and just come and spend some time with it. But just for those swimmers, we had swimmers swimming anything from one of the swimmers to 12 of the swimmers. It doesn't really matter. It's whatever, whatever spins your, your wheels exactly, whatever you're, you're prepared to try out. Yeah. So what kind of swimmers? I know you've given me a whole long list of, of issues that you've been through. But like, what's the, what's the summarized vision as to why you're going through? That's probably the Parkinson's prefer. Your body's just not strong enough. But it's just, well, it's just doesn't behave itself. Yeah. You know, I mean, like some days with the Parkinson's, my body will move okay. Yeah. Some days that won't. Yeah. And so I can't go out deep because I don't know if I'm going to freeze. I, when I say phrase, it won't be cold. I mean, the body just, yeah, nothing will coordinate, nothing will move. So the transplant gives me, like, when I had the heart transplant, it gives me back my cardio, you know, activity. And, um, the, the transplant and the Parkinson's that's non-related whatsoever, right? No, they're not related. No. So there was the cancer. There was the cancer. And then there was the heart failure, which, how long after the cancer was the heart failure? Ten years. And then what type of cancer was it? I had stage three breast cancer, breast of breast cancer. So I had, I had mistook to me, overreact to me, came with therapy, radio therapy, and immunotherapy. So it was about two years of treatment for me. Yeah. And then I had been cancer-free since then. Then I had a hormone, you know, locker as well for five years. Yes. And then it's, um, and that was fine. Heart function was fine. It was doing my adventure sports, my big swims and my, yeah, you know, try events and all the rest when you got to 40. Were you a trackie? Yeah, well, I was training for cancerless podcasts. I just keep the cancer. So I went, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, I was training for the R&D challenge event, Monica. And the training was not going to plan at all. And I got in to do the swim, and that was me. I was out of there. And two months later I was at my cardio, and he said, Nick, I'm not surprised because your heart's going into failure, you know, when you were sure that my heart function had dropped quite significantly. So then I was in medication for about 10 years, and that held my heart function quite well. But it meant my runs and my big bike rides, you know, I had a doubt which was walks, hikes, swimming with fins on, you know, it's just different. I've got electric bikes. So I have adopted every time my body has failed. So I haven't gone, oh my god, I can't do, I just do different things. Just do differently. Yeah. So then the heart went completely in 2021, where a job from the ejection fraction with this gets a bit technical. It went from 37 to 27% so I mean, it already couldn't walk when the block. So I got on the transplant list, it was on up for about 10 months, until we got a new heart. And so that helped with that side of things. And was life changing because I mean, no, the fight they couldn't. What did you do while you were waiting? I mean, did you work up every day thinking I'm a god and I'm going to get through the day? Or were you, was your heart working? Well, I think, I think when you've got heart failure, it's one of those things that you look, well, I could still get my electric bike and go along the flat to get down to Cheltenham Beach to, to dip. And then there's more of a float by that point because you weren't really going for it for our talk. And but I've never been one to go as a smile last day. You can feel your body begin to feel it, you feel the fatigue more, you're sleeping more. So I did feel, you feel as if you're dying. That's the way I put it to a friend of ones because your whole life force is pretty much sleeping out because that's what Beesley is to say your energy because you just don't have it. So that's the way I felt. You were living a death, you know what I mean, that's what I felt like to me. And then I was, and I was still working because I mean, I need to pay bills so thankfully I work from home. And I was sitting on the computer one Tuesday and the call came through like your heart, there's a heart here for you and come in. So because the heart comes in a box and that's no longer the four hours and get in here urgently, take the thing you put 24 hours pretty much. And so we got in and I had the surgery then, I got the column on about one o'clock on the Tuesday and I had the surgery four o'clock in the Wednesday morning. And is this ACC or not, no, no, no, not ICC public medical aid? How does this work? It's just the public public health service because you've only got one transplant service. The transplant, the heart and lung transplant service is based in Auckland, so centralised in Auckland, so that's the national service. So I mean, you can't get lungs or hearts on private, you know, that's that's intensive, you know, stuff and it's equity as well and access to it. So yeah, there's lots of moving parts. So once you sort of got through the recovery, what difference did it make to your life? Oh, it's huge. I mean, the fact that, you know, I'm no longer wanting to sleep every five minutes. It's the fact that it can walk up north ahead, the fact that it can walk up my infect, the fact that it can actually swim further, you know, longer just, you know, I can walk with friends, you know, I'm hearing you can do the 12 miles now. No, you're not. You're still going okay. You're still going to that pesky movement of sort of called partners, is it because it's so many questions. Who's heart heavy growing in your body now? Well, they don't tell you who's who's heart is, obvious reasons, but it was a young person's heart. And so there were a young person that has tragically died and their family gave the biggest gift that they could at that time. So we don't know a thing that's a bit of a fallacy, you know, where people think, oh, you're going to want to meet? I didn't. And oftentimes they don't either because my friend, their child died and they don't need an organ, so they said they don't, they don't ever want to meet the recipients cousins. It's too hard. And then for me, I'm already carrying the death of my own child. I can't carry the death of somebody else's, you know, I mean, if that sometimes gets projected on, you don't know if you would get on with somebody, you know, I mean, it's all those things and it gets quite complex. So for me, I didn't want to meet. And I'm sure they didn't want to either, but you, I did write them a lovely card and said, you know, I will live my best life. I can not miss high again like following Kenzie, as well as only my daughter. I'm honoring your child that, you know, you've given me this wonderful gift that I can be here and see my son grow up. He's graduated. He's got his first job. He's working on logistics. I've been able to see all those things that I might not have got to see, you know, how they not have got the heart. So how old are you now? I'm 53. 53. So actually, she's like 57. 53. Okay, so bring your heart. You're good for another 50 years. Well, partners might, might, might, might, might, might, might to that. Yeah, because you've always forgot to go, because it's degenerative as well. So again, I don't want to look at what it can do now. I can function well now. And that will change over time. And it has changed over the years already. I noticed my, my chairman's stuff gets worse over time. So my body's not functioning as well as it did. But again, you just adapt and I'm a bit, and I'm above grind. You know what I mean? It says, I've got a wonderful, and I wouldn't have got through all of this without my friends, to be fair, you know, with friends and wonderful supporters. And I think that's what, like, what, which makes life worth living is having good friends around you or family, you know, but it's having those loved ones. I agree, but sometimes you've got to compromise on that. I just use Duncan. Yeah. I don't have any other friends either. So I just use him to sit. I couldn't find any of us. Will you be my friend, Nick? I'll be your friend. I'll be your friend. There you go. There you go. Tell these three of us now. Parkinson's came off the, the heart transplant. No, it came in before. I'd been, I had symptoms for about seven years, which is often the case with these little symptoms that were all, I'm going to, like, so I had a tremor. I was having difficulty swallowing. I was having difficulty with my hands. I was paying, like, just, you don't want to pay urgent loans. I was catastrophizing. And these are all symptoms of, actually, provinces, but you look at them in silos. So you get sent off to the, to the incommence clinic, like, for, for the over seven years, and you're going, oh, six seconds. Shouldn't be happening in the 40s. This is totally embarrassing. It's at the tremor. Nobody really put that down and went off to get the bar, you know, the swallow test done. Hands I'd end up having carpal tunnel done, which wasn't carpal tunnel. And I had masking on my face where it looked sadder and mad all the time. People were like, oh, you all right. I think I was really pissed off all the time. And it was, and it was like really slow and stiff at the time, as well. My kids called it resting bitch face. Resting bitch face. It was, it looked like I had resting bitch face all the time. And, and I was, and my walk had changed quite a bit. And I was having quite a few surges of that time for, you know, a failed reconstruction to do with the breast cancer. So we put it all down to that. And it turns out it was Parkinson's. As soon as they put me on the drugs, it's like night and day, because it's because you're being, isn't we just in any dopamine anymore, which is what dopamine is needed for, well, for your movement, but also then, then mood and all those other things that we don't think about, you know, it's, so, so many, little, so many parts of Parkinson's. It's a huge big disease. And it, no two people are the same with what the symptoms they're going to get. So it's, so yeah, but as soon as put me on the drugs, it's like, oh my god, it's like, it's back to me, to me again. You know what I mean? Which was really good. So you reckon? So the, the risk is you, you, you potentially are frees. As in your, your muscles will start working in the middle of a swan. Well, obviously then you're going to sink, right? Well, there's quite a few parties that I was on a forum and there was an international forum in one gadget that there'd be quite a few swimmers in it. And they would all, they would all, they're all quite depressed because they had to go up the swimming, because they nearly drowned, because they'd gone out take, you've gone through the history and all of a sudden the body froze, and you, you sink like a log, you know, you sink really quickly, because, and then people didn't realize they needed to flip, because they couldn't flip themselves or wanted their bag. So your face down your, in your body phased, so your face down, you can't flip yourself over. So you're gone to drown. So they had a couple episodes of that. And I just said, well, I just stay in the shallows. I do, because then someone said to me, one of the comments was, do you wear a, do you wear a life jacket? I said, no, I'm in the shallows. I do not move out of where I can actually stand up. So, because I have sometimes found even me, I can't, I've found the times I can't flip over either. And I say, God, Jesus, at least my friends are here. So I'm going to flip or you're just trying to get my legs down. So, swimming in a pool? Not allowed. Because, because of all of the cardiology teams that do not get into public swimming pool. Absolutely not. You can swim in the sea. All the urine and all the kiddies, everything. Sure, there was an outbreak down in Wellington a few months ago, wasn't in the public pool, so you're dirty or something, something happened. It's that type of thing. And they do, you mean, when you're swimming in a pool, it's this close body of water. You're sweating, which is dilute urine. And when people live with their armies on, you know, you don't know how well they've cleaned their back size after they've gone to her. I shouldn't be putting people off in this swim, but it's all those things in little kiddies, having accidents. We swimming in a pool tomorrow, right? When you've got a normal immune system and you have your chlorine stuff, it's fine, but for someone who's got no immune system. I mean, my immune system is so low because you don't want your immune system to attack in your heart. So, you're on that brink really of just leaving you a little bit of immunity so you're not going to completely catch every infection under the sun. So, that's why we can't swim in pool. So, my name goes to... So, I've just had a visualisation, I'm sorry, back side has been clean. I've just had somebody, like, polishing the bum in my head now for the last couple of minutes. It's pretty gross, right? The stuff that's in those pools might be quite shocking. So, with the whole Parkinson's and the dopamine stuff, do you find that getting into cold water, getting into cold water is supposedly generates a lot of dopamine and things like that? I don't think it's just more dopamine, but it's just for me, it gives me that. It's anything, it's because your brain goes out, cause with Parkinson's as well, because you've got so little dopamine, you can't be prone to anxiety and depression, right? You're more at risk of that, because you don't have those feeling good, you know, neurotransmitter's floating around your brain. But what it does, it gets... Cold work, it's your own head, right? Because you're thinking about, shit, it's cold, shit, it's cold, and then it takes your own head for a start, right? And then, actually, then it's the fact that you get afterwards. I mean, I just, I've just always found it, it's just for me, it's like a reset for me, and that's why, I mean, it works. And it's always worked, and that's why I suppose a stuckle someone have come to fundraiser for Kenzie's gift. I've always done supporting fundraiser for Kenzie's gift, because it is being outside in nature, getting your body moving, being with community, being with friends, it's all of that comes around, and it's because it is a mental health charity for kids and stuff. It sits quite well, you know what I mean? Because when life is tough and life is hard, and I remember even like reading, I've had to, I've had to have been doing the audiobook for Bollocks. It's been a hard couple of days reading that this last few days, because it's the bit where Kenzie dies. And afterwards, and it's like high turn to sport, because they wanted the physical pain to take over the psychological pain, but it was being outside, being with the beach, being having those moments, I've just given you some sort of respite, just just grind you to just get you through it. And there's a lot to be said for it, you know what I mean? It's was that sort of a bit evangelical when it comes to being sport outside, nature, it's just, it just does a concrete jungle doesn't do for me, a gym with lots of people doesn't do for me. It's being out in nature, in the environment, feeling all your sin, all your senses being stimulated alive and the thing that's, and it'll have to say, with swimmers, I've never met a grumpy swimmer, I've met a grumpy runner but I've never met a grumpy swimmer. There's something amazing about swimmers, there's just something. You should see me just before I get in the water. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's this, it looks like a little tower, it's a towering, a source ricks for these hands. Tell us about, oh we'll all talk about this. Yes, you're not talking about this. Tell us about Bollocks and when is it coming out and obviously there's a lot in there that we've sort of briefly touched on on this podcast. Yes, so Bollocks is my memoir which it would be. I've been asked to write a book for for a while now and it's um I thought you want to read my story and it's um and I think I wanted, I didn't want to tell people how to do, how to do grief, how to do illness is how to do because that's not what, that's not what my life is about. I think it was more about because our experiences in life are all different, we've all got our stories but it's how we live a life. So Bollocks is, it's pretty much about my life. So this is the summary of it anyway and I think this probably sums it up really well. So I'll actually read read a bit too. So I left it just in through the book that made it drop the whole library Northern Irish born Kiwi by choice. I've lived through cancer, the death of my three-year-old daughter Kenzie Parkinson's and heart transplant and yet somehow I still get up swinging. Out of that chaos came Kenzie's gift. The charity I've found it helped children and young people whose parents are sibling has died or seriously ill, two decades on it supported thousands across New Zealand. Bollocks is my no-nonsense and at times start a funny memoir of survival swearing and starting a game when life refuses to play fair. Boll brave and brilliantly human this book is a masterclass in resilience, says I. And Harry Barron has endorsed it. When she read it, she said, she said, holy shit Nick, this is just, she couldn't put it down and she said, if it were fiction, you'd think it unbelievable. The fact that Australia is just something else. When is it come on? Comes out in October. And how do people get hold of it? Well hopefully through all good bookstores. Yes, but also through, they couldn't get it through my website, Nick Russell.co.nz, they can sign up for updates on it through the website. It will be available via audiobook and Kindle as well as the hard back cover for the soft cover. Is Bollocks an Irish word? It is. And conversion means? Well, it's like shite. Bollocks is just like, it's what you think of it. Yeah, it's just Bollocks. As it says. Bollocks, it's just a fox here, there's something else going on with my life. But I think it's just you keep going and I said, and it's not done playing the stuff that people go through, but any stretch of imagination. We need to find a sponsor for 12-1 mile and we could put Bollocks on the one side of the caps and Kindle's gift on the other side. Oh fantastic. Thank you. Yeah, I love Bollocks. I love for that. Yeah, I use those jams and thank everybody for listening to me this morning as I've robbered it on about hopefully you've got something else and hopefully you'll all come and join in the 12-1 mile thing and get behind it and and raise some money for some children around you. They don't really do it tough so it's like that's what that's what we're doing for or so it's them when they've gone through the unthinkable that there's servers that can actually make a big change for them by swimming in. Well, you are an inspiration and a legend and it's on that to have met you and I hope we can do some shit together. I'm thinking, immediately you just need someone to flip you over. So we can swim anywhere and you just you need a partner next year and if you freeze up you just we just got to flip you over. Flip me over, yeah, yeah, my flipper. Bollocks and flipper, we'll do good. Yeah, we'll do good. Yeah, that's awesome. I so enjoyed this conversation. It's been wonderful just meeting you and hearing your story and I'm amazed at the work that you do and thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you to everyone. Yeah. Cool. Cheers. Cheers. Hi, my name is Caitlyn O'Reilly. I'm the youngest person who have completed the Ocean 7 Challenge and if this really cool podcast has helped you learn something new, maybe it's introduced you to new swimmers, made you smile. Then please state the opportunity to subscribe to Duncan and Jim's channel. I'm sure they would absolutely appreciate all your support. Cheers. Thank you, Caitlyn. As always, if you would like to give us feedback you can find us on Instagram at SwimscapeAdventures or email which is info at Swimscape.co.nz. If you enjoyed this please consider rating our show wherever you get your podcasts. It helps new people find the show. Thanks and we'll talk again soon.