E54 - Gráinne Moss - The Jelly Fish Magnet.

Born in Ireland, Gráinne Moss discovered her love for open water early, completing the English Channel swim in 1987. Now based in New Zealand, she’s a mother of four, a respected CEO, and an endurance swimmer on a mission to swim in as many of the world’s oceans as she can.

Gráinne is the only swimmer known to have had a shark encounter while crossing the Cook Strait, a story she tells with trademark humour and humility. Passionate about cold-water swimming and Dover Channel traditions, she continues to push her limits in some of the planet’s most challenging waters.

Gráinne now holds three Triple Crowns of Open Water Swimming, including both the Irish and New Zealand Triple Crowns — fitting honours for a swimmer who bridges two nations and a lifetime of adventure.

Tough Lady. 

Transcript

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Welcome to another Clever Dicks podcast. In this podcast we're talking to Grainne Moss. Grainne describes herself as an Irish Kiwi. She grew up in Ireland and started a swimming there but spent some time in Auckland and now lives in Wellington. She was a competitive swimmer in her youth. Took some time out for a career and family and now I was getting back into doing some swimming so we had to talk about some of the swims that she's done and some of the swims that she's looking forward to doing. It was a really great chat. This was a great one. Okay well welcome to another Clever Dicks podcast. In this podcast we're talking to Grainne. Have I pronounced your name correctly? Yeah, if you're pretty close it's Grainne. Grainne Moss. So well done. That's closer than a lot of other people have. Okay, thank you. So we normally just start off our podcast by giving you an opportunity to tell everybody about your swim story, what got you into it, what keeps you into it. If you're gone and then we can dive down into some of your stories. Sure. I started Open Water Swimming a really really long time ago. So this introduction might take a while. So I was a competitive pool swimmer but also lived by the sea when I was young. My local swimming club went down every Thursday night to the open air swimming pool called Picky Pool which was open air unheated and in the north of Ireland. So it was pretty pretty chilly even in the summer. But you know what it was like when you're a kid you just kind of built up proof and you're running around in the in the sea and you're jumping off diving boards there and you're swimming with your mates and we were doing things like playing water polo and you know in this open air pool. And then there was a lot of fun swims. So we just had a little small races and then it turned out I was quite good at them. So this one's got longer as I got kind of older and taller. And then in 1986 actually the new season. So the Irish selectors decided to select me for the first ever Open Water World Swimming Championships which were in 1986 in Lake Windry in the UK. And the reason I got selected was because they kind of saw that I had promise. So a team of four of us went over with family and coaches and it was actually quite fun because you know the Irish team went over and kind of borrowed tracks so it's borrowed gear with their moms and their daughters and their boyfriends and their girlfriends and there was 34 other countries there including the Americans and the Americans had a head coach and every swimmer had a coach and they had all the gear and they were staying in five-star hotel and their car put was thicker than the bedroll that I was sleeping on. So it was a real kind of habs and have knots and we had to fill out this CV and you know all these people are filling out this swimming CV. It has all these big on swims and all that and actually one of the Irish guys said to me oh groney I'm gonna put down I did the Bermuda triangle marathon swim because nobody's ever going to know that I didn't do it because we were all like seriously intimidated and like we were getting drug tested and like you know I was 16 at the time I wouldn't have known a drug if it hit me in the face. You know I mean I wouldn't have known how to get one you know so obviously you know past that all the flying colors but it was you know it was it was pretty felt pretty intense but anyway I swam really really well and I actually finished in the top 10 and and I was the youngest competitor and then all the other swimmers and like some of the greats were there people like Allison Streeder and said to me look you know if you if you can do this which was 25 kilometers and Nick Windmer you can swim the English Channel. So I you know started to look to see if I could swim the English Channel and look at that time like nobody was doing it more or so. I mean it was I couldn't find people to train with. You know there wasn't you didn't have the internet back there and you know so it just shows my old arm but so you couldn't like kind of hop on to a group and find even either but the English Channel so I had to do things like write letters and make fun calls after six o'clock when it was cheap and I actually know you know what takes you a couple of minutes or a day or two terms of each night people took your weeks then you know you had to write a letter then you had to wait until people put back to you and but anyway I ended up getting a pilot and then swim in the English Channel and then you know I just kept swimming lots of Irish Championships so we had an Irish Open Water Swimming Championships which you know I very probably say that I won seven times however I have to say my brother won 10 times so he reminds me that he's the real Poseidon in the family. He also swam the English Channel a few years after me and did the fastest mail time for the year so you know so he often talks about my very very slow paddle across the English Channel compared to him which it wasn't actually that slow so I swam the English Channel just under 12 hours but he swam in just about nine so so yeah so yeah I mean the Open Water Swimming was a bit of a family affair my mum and dad have been actively involved so I think for 27 years they hailed nearly every row possible in the Irish Film Business Swimming Association so either president or secretary or treasurer and actually they kept involved in Open Water Swimming in Ireland even when I had immigrated to New Zealand and then when I immigrated to New Zealand I thought better to do the Cook Street so did that in 2001 but then in 2004 I started to have kids and just started to swim like just the kind of tackling the beach series or you know small swims around I loved to rode a rarer for a while in the blue lake but I wasn't doing it really really big and then kids got a bit older and you know career-wise I've had some quite big jobs it's been hard to fit all the swimming in but in 2001 I thought oh sorry 2001 I thought it's time to get back in to it big time you know I mean I was still kind of keeping a few swims up and I started training to do lake typo and then so that kind of got me back into the long swims and then I did foveau and then I went over and did kind of Catalina and Manhattan and the U.S. and big white swim and Ireland and Scotland and so I've done and done Gibraltar so yeah from 2001 on I've had you know got back into the big long swims and it's been a lot of fun and it's really different actually now compared to when I was doing it back in kind of 1987 you know first of all you've got trackers these days so actually people know where you are in the water it's almost like people can follow you along it's almost the spectator sport now whereas back in 1987 I mean my per mother and aunt were marching straight to Dover and they had no idea whether I was still in the water or not so the day I got in three summers good and one they'd heard that one had got out but they didn't know which one it was and so and there's so many groups and so many people to train with them in recent years I barely swam a strip by myself and whereas when I was training for the you know the English channel I couldn't find anybody so yeah that's the kind of that's a really quick get up through yeah time of information there yes um what so the English channel in you said it was 1987 right yeah some were there what were the biggest differences between that channel crossing versus example leg to poor that you did in 2021 from a piloting perspective a feeding perspective yeah actually to be honest from the piloting perspective you know I had a very good pilot in the in the English channel back in the day um and I had an accident pilot on leg topper I had felt rushed actually I met in 1987 believe it or not so I was in Dover as a young 17 year old and he was in Dover as well and he did his three way a couple of weeks after I did my one way so you know remember actually meeting him and it's just amazing to think kind of like almost 40 years later I actually kind of well and seeing really frequently and so I think for me um like when I saw English channel I had really no idea what I was doing um and actually I was the first Irish woman to some English channel and there'd only been one Irish man before that and he'd saw it in 1972 so I think the level of naivety and you know kind of what you didn't know was quite high whereas the type of what you know it was like well I've done these films before I kind of know vaguely how it goes although I hadn't done a long film for quite a while um I mean one of the big differences I think is the ability to track and the social media and people being able to message you and you know you can stop for a feed and somebody says oh you know Duncan called say well done keep it up and you know that just wasn't possible in the English channel I mean it was I think it was something like three pounds in those days for a ship to shore phone call and you needed those in emergency so there was kind of no messaging um my feeding is actually stayed relatively similar believe it or not um definitely just had a few refinement so I I do less solid food than I would have done on the other days so um but my mum has always made a leak in potato soup and and I had that in the English channel and I still have that on all of my films particularly the cold swims and so yeah a bit more liquid probably nine a bit less solid food and then but apart from that really um I mean obviously the lake is lovely because you don't have tides and currents and generally and it's it's also prettier than the English channel which you know you're not seeing much in the you're not seeing much in the English channel um I did see the old large boat uh or a ship um which you didn't see in the late April um oh the sun that's for the big difference the sun in New Zealand it's just lethal on my terribly white Irish skin so I mean I have to layer out big time um and it won't say you still have to layer up and things like English channel um yeah it's yeah that the sun it was it was a huge huge it's it's quite interesting that you've still got the same same connections in many respects from you know 40 years ago that's that shows you how special the sport is right that's quite a close knit yeah yeah look at close that yeah yeah so my things like fell up but I mean even also like my mum is 980 one she won't mind me telling people out but um you know my mum was was the feeder for all the crew on Gibraltar kind of last year you know she's been on um a lot of the swims and she was you know involved and you know the swims back in 96 86 and 87 my dad and brother went on my English channel boat and like I had a really really rough day on the English channel um so actually one of the big things that I learned on the English channel was my pilot said to me grown yeah are you prepared to go on a day that's not perfect and I said to me say I'm like what I didn't realize is that I was fourth on the list of the tie you know as a fourth swimmer the other three swimmers had all said that they were waiting for the perfect day so I went from four to one um now the fact was it wasn't the perfect day the first three are everybody awful on my per-father and brother like lost the inside of the stomachs and you know various meals that they had eaten for for quite some days and I mean my mum hadn't gone on the boat and and it was quite interesting my mum said to me she would never do that again she was always wants to be on the boat now and because she said not being on a boat not being able to see what's going on is actually far more stressful um now so it's funny they've swapped over so my dad doesn't like going on the boats after the experience of the English channel he has been on other boats with me but um you know he's in his 80s now so he says look I'll do land logistics so he does land logistics and um so on on top of um my dad did all the kind of driving of cars from start to the finish and my mum was was on the boat so slight real reversal in terms of um the English channel and the type of but still yeah and same people all involved and I think yeah the community's what keeps you going I'm not I mean it's just a stunning stunning did your whole family immigrate to New Zealand yeah well my my mother and father did they immigrated to New Zealand a few years after me so I came in 1998 and then they came in 2006 and haven't got my brother over here yet but he has been over around holidays and things and you know still talk to him really does he does your brother's thoughts actually so he's um he does actually so he's um he's a big fan of the the Lido so he goes to the Hampstead he's Lido in London and um he goes on your mind so actually last Christmas I was over and we went together and like there was frost on the ground and it was one degree and you know so um yeah and he's got a query that he goes with that are that are lovely so again he's got that nice community too and I think he's heading off debris to do a 10 case filmers I've I've had the privilege of swimming at the Lado once um and the community they like you said it was it was winter so there wasn't a lot of people out but they you know took me into the the the little sort of I don't want to say clubhouse with bathrooms I guess and you know the the chatting and and the the history with with the English Channel linked to the Lado is just incredible right I could have sat there for days just just chatting to all the old guys there but my question is has your brother done like Topor Rodman Hattern Gibolta Straits but he has actually done Rodman Hattern okay um we had we had again quite a good laugh because he had a terrible terrible time when he was going around Manhattan he had um lightning and you know people having to abandon the swim and his safety boat abandoned him and it had to be replaced so what was quite funny was whenever I did it and I only did it a couple of years ago um it's quite a long time after him um but I did beat his time by about 10 that's the point I'm trying to make yeah so yes it was kind of like quick I had to go go his results and find out if I'd been faster or not and yeah just marginally faster um so yeah so that was good fun that was good fun could I you go tell us about that Manhattan swim that's um that's also got a lot a lot a lot of heritage right and and quite a tricky swim to to um book and I guess get the logistics correct with right yeah look I think um what you've got us then New York Open Water swim in association to a fabulous job and I have um arranging that swim and they really understand all the tidal flows it's incredibly tidal swim um I was really fortunate because I applied for a night slot and I think they're less popular and also I think they like to give the night slots to really experience swimmers so I thought I probably got a good chance of getting one of those um and look swimming in at night was spectacular absolutely spectacular I mean I just loved it um it's a marvelous swim because it's one of the only swims you'll ever do where you actually see progress in me it you know because you're kind of like you're just passing all these buildings um we started about quarter to six at night and it was it was light at that point um from a kind of battery park and um oh we had to stop for the statinone ferry so that was quite funny so the ferry everybody in the ferry's waving at us and we're waving back and they're probably thinking oh my gold what ideas um then you know you're gone you know done or you're going swimming under all these amazing bridges um so what I did was every time I came to a bridge I would do some backstroke and then you know be able to kind of look up at the bridge um then so we started battery park and you kind of go up the east river and the Harlem and then you're kind of halfway through and then you get to the top and you then come down the Hudson and the the kick that you get down the Hudson just to me I say I mean you just fly down Hudson now there's not as much there's only one bridge the George Washington Bridge on Hudson and it's much you know kind of much wider um so yeah look that's that I mean I just absolutely loved that swim I mean you're passing all these you know iconic um landmarks um the lights made it really pretty and also the lights made it pretty and the fact it was dark you probably couldn't see how dirty the water was I did hit a couple of things in the water but I couldn't see what they were so that was probably good so the the temperature varies quite a lot in New York what what kind of temperature water did you end up swimming in yeah look I was quite warm because again they only do the night swims in the kind of July kind of I think you know kind of August so it was a bit warmer so I like I think it was it was it was probably about 24 something but yeah it was well it was it was I find it very comfortable I mean I didn't use any cool any warm drinks and that's when that's amazing because in winter the whole things will frozen over or pretty close to it isn't it yeah yeah it yeah it does it does shift in temperature quite a lot so um but look I I think they run a really really good show there they're very organized it's very very well and very good safety um so you know I think people apply for a slot and um give it a go because it's a it's an iconic swim and it's yeah it's really special really special how many people have have done this more or less I actually don't know but I think quite a few to be honest because um they used to do an annual race they don't seem to do the race anymore which is a wise idea because actually you just couldn't predict the the weather and that's when my brother didn't my brother did it as part of the race and it was just you know it was a terrible day but because everybody's made a commitment they kind of kept going for quite a while so um yeah it's it's good the way that they organize it organized at night I think there's about 50 old slots a year so um yeah where do you train um so look I train and I'm best in Wellington and I train mainly in Freiburg who and then also the beach by Freiburg so Oriental so we go out to the lighthouse in Wellington and run to Balena Bay and sometimes down to her Taitai so yeah most of my training is either Freiburg um pool or sea and then sometimes um well Thurundan pool will not be open for the summer it's a night to a pool of Wellington so we'll do some case in there and then sometimes also the regional cordic center which is in Kumbharnay the Dixie River Bay special bunch of uh I can order swimmers in willing to not very very I mean it's um yeah everybody just you know helps everybody I and um yeah as a I mean all through all of my training I've barely swam a stroke on my own and even things like anyone people have wanted to do their training swims they're four are they six are training swims you know people will make sure that this will be swim with you all the time or you know and then what was nice for me is when Rebecca Hollingsworth was doing her training swims for things channel and like um north channel I said right you know a lot of big crew on the beach you know so here we bring Diana table we set up the the camp chairs we've got the food you know we're going down and doing the feeds for everybody so everybody kind of mucks in and and takes their turn at at supporting and then you know takes their turn at being kind of the key focus of support and yeah yeah yeah and that's really good really good okay so I'm kind of interested you you had quite a big break between you know a sort of an early career and a ladder career well what did you find sort of different you know you know basically in yourself or maybe even in the organization I don't know it was the organization of swims kind of the same as it used to be or and so like the organization of swims is the swims I did when I was younger in Ireland and people took safety really careful in really really they really really thought about it so they were very safety focused so um what you just didn't have was the same numbers you know we we would do races and there would be 10 or 20 people you know now if you you look at like we opened a harbour swim you know like 1500 people and so you know just the volume of people's swimming is is completely different um and I think the um you know all the research as well in terms of open water swimming and good for your health and all that sort of stuff there's much more interest in open water swimming and yeah one of the things obviously I noticed is I'm you know I came back into it and I wasn't as young my recovery rate is not what it was when I was you know in my kind of teens and 20s and I think you do have to train a bit different life um in terms of yeah you just have to be more careful around that recovery so that you don't get injured um yeah so I think probably you know far more people doing it and I think the other piece is much more information on what good training can look like I'm what good good nutrition looks like so you know there's much more research into nutrition now for injured sports than there was back in like 1987 when I proud was doing you know the English so I think 97 doesn't seem like that's longer to go that yeah all depends on what does what does your sort of average I guess training load look like when you when you're training for a crossing um so what I have now is like I really feel I've got my counter training sorted in some ways so I mean type of it was an interesting experience for me because I hadn't done anything for quite a long time so that was you know 2021 and and I went for that kind of tradition well maybe not traditional about that kind of three weeks heavy one week weight light and then you know gradually stepping it up and what I actually find is three weeks heavy at the at the top of heavy so kind of let's say 40 kilometers a week and for three weeks I just couldn't do I just fell apart so my body said ah ah so now what I do is I do two weeks heavy one week light two weeks heavy one week light and I'm very good at listening to my body I don't actually wear a watch and I've kind of resisted getting you know the technology because I I feel that I've got pretty good understanding of what I feel like and you know I'm getting the data anyway in terms of are you swimming faster you feeling good you know do you need to sleep more do you need to back off a day and you know can you go a bit more so I kind of quite like the fact that I that I don't have the watch because I just worry that I'll start getting data that kind of maybe makes me less connected to you know hi I'm actually feeling um so what I do is I I ride out a 20 week program in terms of 20 weeks to the big swim um and then I um you know kind of again as to say do the two weeks two weeks heavy one week light and then work about up through the the 20 weeks um starting from a base of about probably 15 um phase a week and then I don't go over 40 case a week I just count so my my heavy weeks will be kind of 35 to 40 yeah and you do like any sort of jump work or stretching or anything yeah look I find I'm really really have to do the stretching so that's that's the thing that I'd like to be able to do more time in the gym and but you know you got a fit and you know having a family have a lot of you know swimming all the rest but so yeah the swimming and then the next thing for me is the stretching because I am really I've never been very flexible actually even when I was a young competitive pool swimmer I was you know when we were doing stretching I was always the one the coach is like seriously going as loud as far as you can go you know you need to work on this um so yeah so a couple of your classes a week I try I try to get actually Freiburg's great because it's a gym there as well now what I am hoping is this what I find actually since 2021 there's like I've kind of tweaked one thing every season and I think you can focus on improving one thing but you can't well I find maybe maybe it's just me I can focus on improving one thing but not maybe improving three things you know but each each season I've gone right okay let's focus on getting the training right next season let's focus on getting the stretching right next season let's focus on getting the nutrition right so um I am at the stage actually about to start some gym work um for the coming season um because I I do feel I probably need a couple of strengths classes so I will try to do that coming up to Christmas because I won't um you know my first big swim is going to be at the end of March next year so I can probably spend a bit less time swimming at the minute a bit more time in the gym and then I'll cut the gym down probably as I as I get the case out what's um hello swimmers I'm Shannon Keegan US-based founder of Intrepid Water and host of the podcast stories from the water my friends at Swimscape in Auckland New Zealand are the proud ambassadors of Auckland's most iconic ocean marathon swim the 20 kilometers around Rangitoto volcano in the Haraki Gulf this is a very achievable marathon swim that like all long distance swims will live in your memories forever I don't know about you but I've got this swim on my bucket for when I get to visit the beautiful land of the Kiwi jump on swimscape.co.nz or email info at swimscape.co.nz to book your slot see you in the water what's the goal I mean so I know you enjoy obviously long swims um but like is there a cap so for example are you wanting to try and see how long you can go there's there's a couple of guys for example that Brian Gray for example is experimenting with that whole 24 hour and more scenario you know what what's the is there a plan no I I've no I've no desire to to you know swim all day and all night and it's even like I've never done a double I just don't understand why anybody wants to turn around and go back I mean I have great respect for the people who do but it's just never been my bag and I've I've done six of the ocean seven so obviously won't get you which is the last one yeah yeah yeah so that's that's challenging so hopefully that will be on July this year this coming year so 2026 and for me it's actually all about the adventure I just love all the adventures and you know I think and the journey it's because the journey to do a swim doesn't start when you start in the water of the swim you know it starts in the planning and that you know the training and you know the community and everybody getting behind you and everybody sharing stories and making connections um yeah I just I just love the adventure um and then you know you get friends that come with you on the swims and that's really special and family that come with you on the swims so the other piece is like I'm not getting any younger so I'm 56 and um I'm swimming pretty well but at the end of the day you're not going to be able to keep swimming at the level that I've been swimming up for the past couple of year or past few years since 2021 and so I kind of do want to maximize my health and wellness and the opportunities so and the other piece I think you know you train really hard for one swim it means that you've got a good base for some other swims so I am planning quite a busy um schedule for 2026 because as I say I just don't think I'm going to get any younger and I'm not going to get any faster so um you know things won't pretty well health wise at the minute so kind of lock in and and do a lot so I've got I've got um dormant rubber booked um and tells me any uh at the end of March I've got three swims and lockin booked with that was done good was it was done good? yes um then hopefully um Japan in July and then I've also got a slot for Lake Tahoe and oh nice I've heard lots of good things about that swim yeah yeah I look and I I kind of thought you know the west coast of the US is only kind of one flight from New Zealand in terms of you know Auckland to Canada or some places just go so I like to do the customs run there and I thought well actually Lake Tahoe looks pretty spectacular and a bit different um so you know I thought so I so yeah I've just actually heard from them last week that I've got a slot for the it August because again that's why you know you apply and then you see and then they allocate your slot depending on how far's Lake Tahoe I so I think it's it's um it's actually quite far I think um that's it I think it's um about 32 now is it 32 kilometers or 32 I think it's miles yeah I think it might be I'm not quite sure I mean you guys don't know what kilometers are yeah yeah that's that's great so so you booked to go and do a swimming and still not even sure or four you're gonna have to go yeah that's it that's it I have done slightly more research just can't quite remember all these it's good if you don't oh it's actually no I was it's um it's I've just looked at that but 34 kilometers 21 oh there you go that's a piece of cake for you well it's pretty close yeah oh nice man so um any preference to lake swimming or sort of a fish water versus seawater um no I like I like both I mean what I um I have a history of um at one point my nickname was the jellyfish magnet I have been stung by more jellyfish than I care to you know talk about really in some way so um it was quite interesting because I looked at Monterey Bay and I looked at Lake Tahoe and I thought actually you know what I've been stung by enough jellyfish in my lifetime um I'm gonna go for Lake Tahoe as a lake swim so I do like I like both for different reasons um I mean I love the sea and that you you level of unpredictable sea human you're not quite sure what kind of day you're gonna get I mean the same on a lake but it's just the the variational lakes I tend to find as the last because you don't have the tides yeah to deal with um so no look out I like I like to do mix actually I think um you know um both the sea and the lake have their charms and probably the lakes have let what probably have slightly less time so I don't see so you know less less less less jellyfish less um you know uh dangerous sea life and and such like so yeah yeah yeah yeah so would you be the first Irish woman to complete the ocean seven yeah yeah I at the moment I would be if I if I if I if I if I forget all of that and get it done real so very um and at the risk of being political are you Irish or are you Kiwi? Well look I always swim under the Irish flag actually and I think it's because I've been capped for Ireland and um you know I that's where I cut my teeth and turned to open water swimming do you not mind so I will I call myself an Irish Kiwi I mean I'm a New Zealand citizen but I tend I I swim under the Irish flag and the other thing that I will be um she says positively so let's have a positive frame of mind um when I get Japan done I'll actually be the person that it's taken the longest in the world to do the ocean seven oh wow in terms of this like because obviously English Channel was 1987 so I'll be of like 39 years and actually on on the there's a triple crime which is Catalina Manhattan and um the English Channel and I'm the I'm the second longest person so actually there's a guy who who is a couple of months uh longer than me between the first swim and the last one so that's cool so yeah so that'll be quite cool yeah that's really cool and I think I'll take a when when I get Japan done it's going to take I don't think that record is really going to ever be broken because I don't think it's going to take anybody else 40 years to do oh you'll be surprised right um but so we I came across um a guy by the name of Otto Tenning um in South Africa many years ago and Otto Tenning was Lewis Pugh's sort of mental and training partner and Otto did the English Channel I think he was 54 or 53 years old something like that and him and Lewis Pugh sort of from what I understand went together and that's where I'm like a week apart or two a couple of weeks apart or whatever the case might be now Otto went back to the English Channel a couple of years ago and became the oldest swimmer to finish the English Channel at like 74 years um so there's another goal for you but to end the story in the same season that Otto Tenning became the oldest English Channel swimmer somebody popped him and he was like a month older than him um and he was like bugger this and he went back again and he he did it again so he's done three English channels um and he is now still officially the oldest person to have competed it so maybe put that on your bucket list yeah yeah well another 20 years of goals yeah I am thinking of um going back to the English Channel in 2027 because that would be 40 years after I swam and then see if I can swim again so I had emailed Mike Orham but I hadn't heard anything from him so I have to even have a son lunch and see and and try and get a slot for 2027 so yeah that was that was a thought and I have a mate a very good friend of mine who's who's 60 at about the same time and then obviously my brother still you know swimming and and his crew would be very happy to come and be boat crew for me so um so yeah so that that that could be an option sort of 40 years later you're back yeah well go so I was just thinking you've got such a long career um it's pretty amazing if you ever really struggled with with injuries or or have you your training seems to be very sensible and and you said that you can really listen to your body well so um have you managed that fairly well or have you had ups and downs no look I have managed it fairly well when I was really young I did have a a shoulder problem like I mean kind of about 1617 um which I um got treatment for and I just just actually kind of signed and and um you know anti-inflammatories and that actually worked quite well um it was actually just about getting the bright tablet they write anti-inflammatory which was uh worked really well actually for me and it's never been a problem since actually now I did get a little bit injured on the on the leg type of swim in 2021 and that was just because I came at that quite quickly so I only um decided to do that kind of in the December and I swam on the press to be uprolled the next year and I was coming off our relatively lobbyist so um and actually what I discovered is is that I uh on my technique I was as I was entering the water I was kind of putting quite a lot of pressure through a single point in my shoulder just the way my technique was so that we just tweaked that a bit and I have been actually fine ever since and I have um as long as I do a bit of that stretching and keep the mobility up I tend to find I've been very fortunate very limited uh injuries um again I think you know that listening to your body and making sure you take the time to recover and I'm not pushing it yeah yeah then to open some open water swimming that is you know it is a long game and that means you do need to you know um you know not go rip shit and that kind of fast um so yeah like I've been very fortunate um to be relatively touch with injury free awesome yeah there's there's there's a number of people that I swam with that are dealing with injuries at the moment they probably need to take some lessons from you in terms of uh um being a little bit more sensible hey Duncan yes yes and sometimes less is more that's they say uh I'm very good at the less that's not that's not easy yeah uh mine mine wasn't so much an overuse injury but I took a bit of a fall and I I fractured my clavicle and I have an inflamed and I've never had that issue before and uh now realise that an inflamed bracer takes a really long time to recover and it's just super frustrating so I did breaststroke today for three cases in the ocean which was very frustrating yeah yeah yeah yeah luckily I've never fallen broken anything and haven't had any broken bones so that probably helps from the injuries as well yeah but but I do got a jump once a week I come to John's house once a week for a long time and I hear you get quite nice coffee there as well yes exactly how many children do you have I've got four kids so 21 to 15 yeah yeah and any any swimmers in the mix day yeah the oldest has done a little bit she's um so she came down to the ruby with me a couple of years ago so she did the 5k I did the 10k um and she played a bit of water pro and stuff so don't but no open water swimmers in the making it would appear at the moment yeah um I mean they can all swim but yeah no uh nobody is racing to follow and mum's footsteps but they do enjoy they do seem to enjoy going on the boat so um kids have been on a number of my swims and actually what was really nice when I did Catalina um the Catalina boats are really quite big and my youngest and was I think 14 at the time but um and apparently I think they had a major thing of 16 but I talked to them and and because like their dad was on the boat and I was swimming they were like yeah no they can come on the boat too so that was really nice because like everybody got to come on that boat whereas on other boats it's just been maybe one or two of the kids or one of the kids or mainly but mainly my mum mainly my mum so yeah she's how was your mum that she's 81 so um yeah yeah she's um and so she did the Gibraltar swim with us the risk for a faster that because I was lucky enough to get a Gibraltar slot and I know how difficult it is to get a Gibraltar slot so I actually reached out to Paul Falto in New Planoff and asked him if he wanted to come and then there's a Kiwi called Kalam Ead who's um currently based in Brisbane but was and Singapore at the time I reached out to him yes um I also reached out to Kate Learn to see if she wanted uh because she had already done Gibraltar but she had gone with the group that were really slow so she had talked about wanting to come back and maybe do a faster time but um she wasn't available so then I I reached out to actually Marcia Cleveland who and you needed the slots so she's from the States and but Marcia actually had the slot after me so um so she put me in touch with this wonderful lady called Laurie King and so we were all there for a 10 days actually we all rented a high school stay together my mum and dad were over because actually Laurie Paul and Kalamore came on their own so my mum and dad and my youngest actually went to um and I so yeah my dad made lots of lovely meals he's a really good cook now since he got retired he's um like to cook really well and yeah and then my mum fed all four swimmers so um that was that was pretty exciting um that's special moment so yeah yeah yeah yeah no I mean that's what I love it's about the adventure um and a lot of it's about all the stuff around the swim you know we had to wait 10 days because the wind was too high and it was relatively stressful but we all kind of kept each other calm we all enjoyed each other's company but you know you definitely build a bond and an understanding of my people over those 10 days and I mean I was delighted we got away on the last day we got away on the very last day possible because I think it would have been a bit gutting to have spent all this time together and then not got away but actually getting to do this swim made it really special and then it was funny because unbeknownst to us and I was on the same flight from London to Singapore as Kalam and then and then I was on the same flight from Singapore to Auckland as porcelain so we all ended up meeting up at Heathrow Airport and so I think I came off the the tube and I was feeling a bit dined because we had done the swim and you know then I'd flown to the UK quickly to see some family and I only had a day to do that because we'd ended up being so you know waiting in in in in staying for so long and I was feeling a bit dined because I've seen the family nine I'm heading back and came out of the underground gates and the next thing is there's Kalamade walking pasties coming off another tube and it was like oh yeah then you know we checked in together and you know traveled together and yeah it was really lovely and a really special time so it's interesting you you mentioned I know you you've said you're a bit down because you were leaving the family but there's there's some swimmers that definitely have a down after a big swim and there's other swimmers that don't seem to be affected as much by it but it's you know how does that affect you yeah I think I've been I definitely think once you have done a big swim and if you particularly when you've done maybe the last one of the season because I think you think like I did cattling there and then actually did Manhattan about eight days afterwards and and then you know before cattling had done Hawaii so did Hawaii in May I did cattling in July and and then you get to Manhattan you kind of get to the end of the season and I think you know that there is a kind of you know this kind of well yeah because you've had that focus and also you've had that discipline and you've had that routine and so I think I think actually for me there's usually a couple of weeks of like yeah there's this great not just you know to end so much you can have a couple of wines and you know you can party and stay out there and watch tally and that kind of stuff but then I do think you know you need you can have the risk of getting into a bit of a hole and and that's why I quite like to then have at least plan something ahead or start thinking about something so I find thinking about what might be next and it doesn't need to be immediate you know it could be next season and I find that kind of a helpful way of of keeping myself up but yeah I do think I do think it is I mean I think and I do think it is a challenge after you've had been so focused on some plane and you know it's been maybe such a high but you know you do you can have the risk of dipping at some point is the what's happening in in Ireland at the moment with with open orders swimming is it is it going strong oh yeah it's going gangbusters I'm sick gangbusters some amazing how are you more from earth I mean also I mean like my Facebook feed is just full of open orders from earth and I mean there's a couple in Ireland I just don't know how to do it I mean they just swim and like there's a guy called Dave Barry and I mean he's doing like I don't think you must be up to about as 50th of a water like swim in the year genital I mean it's just that stuff it's huge it is absolutely huge and like I'm just thrilled um absolutely thrilled and I you know um I mean I you know you can't look back and you know by just thinking 1987 and I didn't do the train with the virus over there that peeps the people but I'm just thrilled that so many people have you know discovered the sport and the benefits of it and the community more and more people are coming into it but yeah it's going gangbusters and it's going gangbusters everywhere I know it is yeah it is so maybe start detour because it's a hobby of German and myself other than talking shit is um you obviously enjoy the cold to a degree uh you know obviously it started swimming in the cold there's open water and heated pools is there any any sort of tweak of the imagination to come and join us at the next New Zealand swimming champs to have something new yeah look I um would really like to do that at some point but it's just I've been pretty focused on the open water and so like um also they tend to be in a time when I've got slots for other swims you know mains like an emergency swimming championship so probably be when I'm in Japan this year but yeah I would be uh yeah it would be Kane um at some point um and I look I loved swimming with my brother in the Lido and that was truly ice swimming you know I mean um and it is just amazing in terms of how you feel afterwards you mean you do get that big adrenaline head um so yeah I think uh definitely uh be very Kane and you'll see me there sometime nice nice um maybe last question for me and then I'll start jaboring um any advice for like younger swimmers or potentially even swimmers that used to swim in their youth that are considering coming back you know any any top of guidance so I think for people who have swim in their youth and are thinking about coming back um for me it was actually quite tough coming back um after I'd had my kind of fourth child and I remember doing the Auckland Harbour swim and um I think I was something like a thousand than seventy fifths out of 1452 people and I used to be in the world top 10 and I can't get into the top thousand and and it's because you know I wasn't doing very much you know at all the rest but nice a number of people um at that swim had swam with me you know when I was younger and faster and they rejoiced rejoiced at the fact that they had beaten me and and you know that can actually be quite hard for people who have swam or competed at a senior kind of level to you know not to be able to you know be kind of at the front of the pack anymore and and actually I had to think about it quite hard um but what I realized was like I really loved it and it was really good for me so actually I didn't care I mean I did slightly care to be honest but you know I didn't the caring a better about hi I was swimming versus the enjoyment and what else it was getting now was able to kind of rationalise it but I think you know I have talked to a number of people who have said they find that rationalisation really difficult and so what I was saying people who want to get back into it like just don't hold yourself up to the standard that you were at when you were younger um and just remember the kind of the passion and the fun and the community and and all the other things and because you know being the best of being fastest you can't sustain that and but what you will get out of it is you know an incredibly positive community you know would be good for your health your wellness and um you know that outweighs the fact that somebody might make fun of the fact that you didn't quite so much as fast as you used to and maybe they beat you know yes cool well I think that's that's great um thanks so much for your time Grunnier it was great meeting you even if it even in Osvirtual I'm sure I've probably bumped into you but just didn't know about it before I ended a beach series or something but yeah it's wonderful hearing your story I'll learn so much thank you no problem thanks very much so I'll say nice to chat Duncan I was good to have this chat before we see each other in April yes um I'm looking forward to that three three big swimmers in one week um you're a legend you're an inspiration to tons of swimmers out there and uh yeah we look forward to getting to know you a little bit better yeah that sounds good and I bumped into Roger so he said he might come and help it um yes he will definitely be there yeah yeah yeah yeah so great that was nice yeah awesome yeah thank you for the rest of the weekend and we shall be back in touch hi my name is Caitlyn O'Reilly I'm the youngest person who have completed the Ocean 7 Challenge and for this really cool podcast has helped you learn something new maybe it's introduced you to new swimmers made you smile um then please save the opportunity to subscribe to Duncan and Jim's channel I'm sure they would absolutely appreciate all your support cheers thanks Caitlyn well as always you can give us feedback on our Instagram account at Clevverdix or send us an email Clevverdixinz at gmail.com we'd really appreciate hearing from you and cheers we'll speak to you again soon