E48 - NZ Ice Swimming Champs - St Bathans 2025

In today’s episode, we’re heading to the icy waters of Saint Bathans, where a remarkable group of swimmers braved temperatures of less than five degrees Celsius. Under the guidance of Ice Swimming President Roger Soulsby, these athletes pushed the very limits of physical endurance in one of the most breathtaking – and brutal – environments in New Zealand.

But this challenge wasn’t faced alone. Alongside the swimmers were an incredible team of water safety officers, medics, doctors, and volunteers – the unsung heroes who kept us safe, supported, and inspired throughout the event.

We’ll hear firsthand what it takes to swim in these extreme conditions, the mindset required to step into near-freezing water, and the community spirit that made it all possible.

So settle in – this is a story of courage, camaraderie, and cold water like you’ve never heard before.

Transcript

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Well, welcome to another Clever Dicks podcast. This podcast, Duncan and I are just going to play a whole bunch of clips from our latest Cold Swimming adventure when we went down to St Bathons. This is how many times have we been doing cold swim adventures? Ah, number six, Jim. Um, from what I record, the first one was done in Lake London. Um, then it swaps between the pool, which is held in Alexandra, and the lakes from have moved to St Bathons. So yeah, this was number six. Well, that's including your little ice, a cult tour that kind of kicked the whole thing off, eh? Yeah, correct. We've come a long way since then. Well, very cool. So we've got a whole bunch of just little clips from swimmers and supporters. So I think what we'll do is we'll just kick off and we'll hear from Lady to start off with. Here we are with one of our newest, another newest ice-milers who we're talking to. Leticia. Leticia. Oh, letty as we all love to call you. So, letty, I suppose it's dive into it. How was the swim today? I loved it. I loved everything about it. I really like the swim itself. I really liked the venue, like that beautiful lake. I really liked the spot crew, sing Duncan and Jim on the board following me. It was amazing. And then I did, did I had a little freak out moment when the second board come and join? Because I thought that I was so bad. My form was so bad that you decided to send the second board to support me. And then I figured out that it was just because Mary had finished her swim and the second board was just because that was the break after us. Yes. And then the recovery. I'm one of those weird ones that have the after-trop really late after I get out of the water. So I had time to get quickly dressed by my amazing second Bethany. And then it was just a lot of giggle with in the recover room. Mary was there. We were chatting. And then Karina, who had some before and did an extreme, was also there and we're all chatting together and just just enjoying the rollercoaster of shivers. And that was fun. I loved it. I really loved it. So this isn't your first time. Yeah, this is what you said. It's my first mile. First mile, but you've been around cold water swimming. Yes. So I started last year for the Alexandra, for the New Zealand Championship. And then I ended up going to Mulvino for the World Champ. Wow. And then so both in Alexandra and Mulvino, I did a one K. And yeah, all I had to do this time was a mile. So that's why I'm here. Wow. That was a thing. It was a great swim. You were just fantastic. And you're really one of the drivers behind this. You kind of look after all the treasure. Yes. Money and the finances. I took over you, Jim. Yeah, because I wasn't very good. No, that's not what I'm saying. You pulled out now. No, no, yeah. So yeah, I've been I've been the treasure for the last year or so since Alexandra, I think. Which kind of like, yeah, pushed me into organizing all this. I was a bit upset this year with the Mulvino trip and some personal travels. I wasn't really heavily invested, but yeah, it's it's really a crew effort. Everybody is giving a lot of time and effort to make it happen. And yeah, that's I don't think we would be able to have that running without a crew. And we do have a strong crew. Absolutely. I think you and all the others who show and especially who did so much of this pre-arranging and organizing did a fantastic job and we really appreciate it. And it's once one the once the event is happening. It's like we have the boat people. We have like a crew for the boats. We have the medic crews. We have the marshalling crews. We have the the one centralizing all the information and all that. And it's time keepers time keepers. Yeah, let's not forget about them. And then also all the supporters that are just like offering their helps and it's simple thing as like filling up the the kettles in the lake and then boiling them and because we constantly need a hot water whether it's for the hot water bottles or the flasks. And it's it's really a team effort not only the organizing crew but also all the supporters and swimmers who are willing to give the time and just give us the hands and help us. So thank you to all. Yeah, well from us thanks very much. It's been super well organized and very pleasurable. Yeah, well, yeah, it's been and we have one more day and we're going to smash it. And then we have prize giving and a great dinner. I've got a question before we log off. Now that you've done an ice mile, what's the next ice challenge? Well, I thought the ice mile would be my my ultimate goal and then because I really I think the one case the distance that I know I really enjoy and I can recover very easily from none I've done the ice mile. It's not that much more to do an extreme, right? So looking forward to it. Yeah, I don't I'll see we'll talk in two years when it's an option. No, but letty, we have this honor recording. Really listen to me. Do you not say I will? I said I'm conceiving you. That's the beauty of persons who can even if it's just same condition as today. I think I have that in me to finish and do it. I think you do. Yes. You're a legend, dude. Well done. Thank you. That was thanks to my support crew on the boat, right? Thank you. Thank you. Well, all about that. A moment. Are you guys going to keep it up? Yes, we are doing the cleavage. Oh, fantastic. And who's your next guest star? Well, I'm talking to her now. So, Gin is Ginny. It's Ginny. Yes, yes. Yes, yes. What have what have what have rooms have we done so far this year? Well, I did a cool swim a little while ago, which was around a bunch of islands. Please don't ask me what the name of the island is, because I can't remember. Oh, Mogahina. Mogahina islands. They were very cool, but now I'm down in St. Bethans. Beautiful central Otago. The ears. The slobly crisp clear air. Flat lake. And we're about to get in that water. And we're going to swim and boy, boy, boy, boy, boy. And how are you swimming today? I'm not swimming today. I'm here supporting my mates. You're mates. Yes, I'm even wearing underwear. Oh, I know. I know. It's a bit above and beyond. It was so weird putting underwear on the morning, not talks. Yes. Right, but what's your main event? My main event is tomorrow, where I'm going to attempt a 2K and extreme ice bath. That is impressive. I'm going to give it my best. We're all going to be shot. Oh, yeah. So you've done a mile before. I've done a mile before. This is now a 2K. This was a 2K. Wow. So I'm just trying to push myself a little bit more. Well, you've asked the last one. That's great. Well, Jim, what are you doing today? I'm going to try a 1K. Nice, nice, good job. Cool. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you, Jeanine. So here we are talking to Waping. Yes, Waping. Yes. Cool. So we're down at the Ice Swimming Championship in St. Bathans. Have you swam yet? Your swim is tomorrow? Tomorrow. Yes, tomorrow. 500 metres. There's 500 metres. But I'm kind of interested in some of the other really crazy cold swims that you've done in the last time. Could you tell us about some of your cold swim adventures? Yes, I have. I have done quite a few. So I've been to Antarctica in November last year. And the water temperature was negative 0.8 degrees because negative. Negative, yeah. Because salt water doesn't freeze at zero. So it's actually negative 1.7 or 9 before they actually freeze up. Oh my gosh. So that was painful. That was painful. So tell me about that. How far? How long? So I swam. I was meant to do 1K but I think I got too cold by 750 metres. They pulled me out and I saw a video of me swimming in my arms. So going super, super, super slow. And it felt like it's a slow motion video but it wasn't. It was me going too slow. So they pulled me out and I remember climbing into the zodiac and then stopping my watch and then that was it no memory and suddenly I'm in my warm room with clothes on, shivering. So I had like a memory loss. Yeah, I think a number of us have had that. Yeah. So that's Antarctica. That's all cool. What else have you done? So in May, end of May, I went to Svalbard which is Norway but part of Norway but that's up north. So the northernmost town called Longerbine. Yeah. And that's yeah. So there was about 78 degrees north. North, yeah. And yeah. So that was cold but not as cold as Antarctica. The surface was maybe 2.7 degrees but the boat that we were on it was measuring maybe 0.89 degrees which is maybe about a meter lower than the surface. Yeah. So I found that tough somehow. I got underwater, heart racing and then I swam five minutes later. My heart was still racing which is quite unusual for me because I'm going to get calmed down and I can pull it on. Yeah. Yeah. So I was a lot slower but look at the photos. I could see my heat was up. My legs were stragging and yeah. So that was yeah. That's pretty cool. So was that north of the Arctic Circle or must have been pretty close? Yeah. North of the Arctic Circle but didn't the Arctic Circle. So you swam in both. Both Arctic. Yep. So I've done South Pole. North Pole. So now I'm bipolar. So you come from from Malaysia. Malaysia. Which isn't really known for cold water. No, so I'm really interested in why you find this cold swimming so appealing. I don't find it appealing. It's just the travels that you go with it and I think I left a museum and I live in crashes like three quarter of my life. So I'm more kiwi than I am Malaysian. Yes. Yeah. And then like in in crashes if you go out every week swimming in the open water the temperature drop from summer one one degree at a time and every week you go out it's not so bad and then you cannot acclimatise and you're not so bad. So what temperature does it drop to in Christchurch when you when it's really cold it can get down to six degrees. Six degrees in the sea. Yeah. In the sea Yup. Kaspe and Lake Ruha as well on that. Yeah. Lake Ruha sometimes. Wow. That's that's that's pretty cool. Yeah. So you're doing a 500 meter tomorrow. Yeah. I'm interested in what does what do you see in the future for you in terms of cold swimming. I don't want to say it. And what happened to my board and my not well I was even if it's just an idea. It's just an idea. Okay. I don't have to go through no no no no we'll be we won't put this on the podcast. This course I was thinking like I want to learn how to swim butterfly and then maybe do I am Alex next year, maybe? Yeah, but I have to learn, I have to learn butterfly. But if I can't do it, then I can't do it. I don't have to do it. Yeah, but just, just need to come next year. What I recommend it, because I did 100 I.M. in Alex last year. Oh wow. And I am now the Australasian age group record holder. Woo! That's brilliant! Yeah, there's only one of me. No! Why not? Yeah, you might as well. Yeah, lower your trumpet. Absolutely. Well, I'm super looking forward to your swim tomorrow. Yes. And I'm sure you're absolutely nailed it. So, all the best. Thank you. Thank you for talking to us for vaping. All right. Hello swimmers. I'm Shannon Keegan, US-based founder of Intrepid Water and host of the podcast, Stories from the Water. My friends at Swimscape in Auckland, New Zealand are the proud ambassadors of Auckland's most iconic ocean marathon swim, the 20 kilometers around Rangitoto Volcano in the Haraki Gulf. This is a very achievable marathon swim that, like all long-distance swims, will live in your memories forever. I don't know about you, but I've got this swim on my bucket list for when I get to visit the beautiful land of the Kiwi. Jump on swimscape.co.nz or email info at swimscape.co.nz to book your slot. See you in the water. All right. Here I am on talking to. My dear Lee. My dear Lee. My dear Lee, you're down at St. Bethens with us and you've just done what? I just swam the 250 meters. And that's your first time. And how do you feel about it? I love it. You looked you got to come back. I'm hooked. I'm definitely hooked. I definitely want to try and do against the goal to swim a mile. Or now that I found out, I didn't even know. There's an extra mile. I guess that will be the ultimate swim. But once they've been able to sleep at a time. It's a bit of a crazy sport. What made you even think of starting? Well, I saw a post on Instagram and I saw... Maybe I can do it. And here I am. It just did into the challenge. Yes. That is so cool, ready. I've always been lovely chatting to you. Yes. So nice meeting you too. Right, we're sitting here, down at St. Bathons. And we've got a couple of little chickies in the back of the car. They're going to be doing some swimming. So, first of all, we have Nadine. Nadine, what's up today? Not much. A few nerves. What are you swimming today? A bit of salt. A mile. You're swimming a mile. You're going to absolutely be awesome about this, eh? Yes. Are the nerves? Massive. Massive. Right. Onto Sarah. Onto Sarah. Sarah. Hello. Hello, everyone. Hello. I'll be on the boat today. I'm support today. You're going to be super. You are the best supporter in this whole place, aren't you? No, I'm not. Yeah, you are. No, I'm not. And then what are you doing tomorrow? I'm going to swim a one kilometer. Wow. Yeah. How was your 500? My 500, I can barely recall to be honest. It was tough. It was tough. It was very tough. I had a pip talk with Dad and Frankie. Tell us about Frankie. But Frankie is a character. She's a little lady. She is a little lady. And her science, I can... This sister is pretty cool too. Yeah, pretty cool. Nixie. Nixie. Nixie and Frankie. Just a young child myself, I need to give her some credit. Oh, young child? Yeah. Sidekits to the main one. Well. Oh. Yeah. No, you're a sidekick. You're a sidekick. It's good. How was your swim, Jim? One kilometer swimmer. Well, it's in the past now. I did it. I survived it. It was as expected. It was cold. It was hard. How was your recovery? Recovery was better than last year. That's good. Which is pretty cool. But last year's recovery, I was... It just goes to show how soft I really am. Yeah. And I was very soft last year. Oh yeah, there you go. You've gone stronger. Yeah. Well, that was great listening to some of those swimmers. But I think everybody knows that you can't actually do things like this if you don't have the right people around you. It's not just swimmers, it's everybody. Yep, a real team sport. Us swimming is definitely something you don't want to do alone. We've got guys on the water looking after our safety. We've got paramedics. We've got doctors. And we've got tons of volunteers helping out with food and timing. All legends. All legends. And I tell you what, it's so impressive. Even some of the legends kids get down and get into the supporters well. Oh, Frankie! So, Bri, I thought it would be really good to hear from somebody who looked after a silly people once we got out of the water and what your impressions of the whole event was? Ah, I love it. It's mad. It's mad and I love it. You know, it's... I love seeing people do fascinating and interesting things. I could never. I could never. I could never. No medical clearance for me to get in the waters, always what I say. But I have to say, from a swimmers point of view, I think that we push the boundaries and our limits because we know that there's you and other people like you kind of at the other end so that we can take it further than we would do otherwise. Yeah. And I would like to think that's, you know, how we make people feel. That's what we're all in it for, right? Is to help people feel safe and, you know, cared for, to do, you know, set the goals and push themselves into all that fabulous stuff. And it's a real privilege to look after you guys afterwards, to be honest, because you're so vulnerable, because it's really hard. Yeah, there is a lot of understanding there. Or was there any sort of standout bits that you can remember from this last year? Oh my goodness. Look, I always have a soft spot for our power athletes. Yes, yes. I do. I will always have just a special, you know, space for our power athletes who, you know, it's extraordinary for everybody, right? But for some people, there are extra challenges and barriers. And I just love to see people do well. You know, we had Brent Doe phenomenally. We just everyone, I wouldn't even want to let start listing them actually, because everyone did so well. But there was so much this year. It was such a big event. It was. It wasn't being bad. It was. It was. Yeah, it was fantastic. So, yeah, and your Frankie's mum, we've got a little bit of Frankie as well. Yeah. My goodness. She, she, um, it's such a privilege as a parent to see my kids get to see this side of things as well, right? Yeah. Have them make people doing interesting out of the box things, right? Where people, it's, it's a unique group of people doing unique things. And I, that's what I love the most about it. And I love that my kids get to experience that and to see that there's more to life than mainstream stuff. Well, I have to say, we all loved it with your kids with their little signs supporting different swimmers. And all the effort that they put into it, it really was, it kind of made the whole event very nice and special, yeah. Oh, good. They love it. They love it. They love it. They get so into it. Frankie's desperate to be her old, was she told she had to be 12 maybe? But she's still got in for a little dip anyway, even if she couldn't go swimming. He got in more than once. Did, did, did, did good stuff, but I think she was told she could swim next year, but I think it has to be the year after. I think it has to be. But she'll be all her training. And Lexie, Lexie's probably going to be like me. Lexie will be on the sidelines yelling very loudly and tearing, but not at all interested in getting in the water. Oh, they're going to be great to see that really happen to you. I know. I know. I just probably would be super cool to hear from people looking after swimmers as opposed to just from swimmers. Yeah. Well, I don't think like it is, it's long days and it's just so worthwhile. I think it's important to do community work. You know, that's like a value of mine to, you know, do things that are a voluntary and be a part of a community. And even though I'm not a swimmer, I very much get to feel a part of that and I'm so grateful that. Well, you absolutely are a huge part of it. I think everyone there kind of contributes in their own way. It's just a wonderful unity. I know. It's a privilege and an honour and I'm so grateful to have stumbled upon it. I just came down once to be meek second. That's how it all started to help working out of the water. That was all. Yeah. Now look at where we've gone. We've been to Italy together. We have annual holidays in the depths of winter. Oh, that's great. I mean, and your kids even, it's Aunty Meg. Aunty Meggy, correct? Aunty Meggy and Uncle Adam. They are the best. They're the best. Yeah. My take comes out. It's a privilege. I absolutely love it. Even though I'm grumpy at you all sometimes. Where's your junior? I never noticed that. No. No. I was just there. Absolutely helpless being looked after. Feeling wonderful. Yes, great. I only get grumpy at the ones that don't bring their jerseys. You can ask Duncan. They bring cotton. Be correct. Basketball song. It was a way the death of me. And not real grumpy. It's not true grumpy. Helpful. Yes, absolutely. Well, you didn't have to throw all of his clothes in the bin this year. No, correct. That's because he didn't have any. So a win is a win. That's great. Okay. Thank you so much. Beautiful. Thank you. It's good to see you, Jim. Take care. Yeah. Cheers, mate. All right. See you. Bye. Well, here we are talking to one of our top supporters. What's your name? Frankie. Frankie. Cool, Frankie. So this is not your first time you've been here. You've seen this before, hey? Yes. I've been here for the last two times. Last two times. Last two times. How many swimmers here do you know? We're half of a quarter. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you got a favourite? Maybe not, to Maggie. Aunty Maggie. Probably. Yeah. And Duncan? Yes. Let's go. You got any words to say for all the other swimmers? Good luck and do amazing. And don't get hypothermia. Fantastic. Thank you so much, Frankie. Thank you. Hey, Clever Dicks listeners. I'm Merlotte, the head coach from Swimsmith, Auckland. Wondering how to improve your stroke, or break through your performance plateau? Our swim analysis session will help unlock your potential by capturing your stroke from every angle and showing how to correct it. We use a Swimsmith methodology focusing on the individual rather than the stroke. Use a code Clevverdex to get 15% off if you book a bit analysis session before the end of this year. And if you're an Auckland or visiting, come check out our awesome squad. The first session, always free. Find us online www.swimsmithorklin.go.nz So, here we are talking to Dai. Dai is our amazing on-water paramedic when we're ice-famil. Please. So, Dai, you've spent a couple of days on the water. What's your impressions of the event so far? The event's pretty cool. I think the swimmers are absolutely nuts. The organisation's been pretty good. The swimmers on the water and safe hands. Yeah. That's pretty cool. What brings you down to look after crazy people? The crazy people that I'm looking after. My stuff known for quite a while. And it's kind of nice to know that we can keep them alive. Well, from our point of view, it is super cool to have someone who's got like so much experience in cold water. You know, we're just cold stuff, right? I don't know if it's your speciality, but you're pretty good at it, right? She is. It wasn't until six years ago, I think, was my first immersion with ice swimmers and I had to YouTube what I was looking for because I had no link and idea. Now it's just become a second nature. I love being on the water. I love looking after working with the crew and looking after our swimmers. What was that first ice swimmers event? How did it start? Oh my goodness. What year was that? 2020? 2020? Okay. So, I had been a warm water medic in summer for a couple of years. And this lovely gentleman, Simon Freeman. He took us a team over there for the swim, met me, and I think two years later, that's maybe 2018. He got hold of the medical chief of the summer swim series and went, hmm, what's your medic in your goodness? It's like, yeah, she's pretty okay. So I got invited along to the first ever 2020 ice swimming adventure. And it wasn't even. Cold tour. Cold tour. Cold tour. It wasn't even ice swimming. Thanks. Thanks, Duncan. Cold tour. We came down in the middle of winter with five, six. Six. Six swimmers. Myself being the apparent medic. Didn't know any of these people. We flew around the southern Alps looking for cold water. Had no idea what any of us were doing. Big plane, small plane, helicopter, lake. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty much how it went. Chevel sickness, scary flights, snow, up to the underneath, I think, of the helicopter. The skits were above the knees, yeah. Yeah, above the knees, yeah. And these dirty people went swimming and I'm like, I'm out of the drain, yeah, they're pretty buggin'. But they will survive and that's where I think I got taken from the air too, where we are now. So from my point of view, if somebody is thinking about doing cold water swimming, do you have any thoughts or advice for them other than, don't do it! Ah! Ah! Um, um, yeah. That was my first thought. If you're crazy enough to give ice swimming a go, then you've got what it takes. Find a group, train with them, learn what you need to learn. Um, yeah, go in there. That's awesome. Do you have anything else to drink? Have you had any hairy scenarios in the last couple of years? Ooh! Drenny, you turned back, right? So our second cold water swimming adventure was like London, just from Christchurch near Athos Pass, August 12 of us, I think, with crew. 12 swimmers and crew, yeah. Was it 12 swimmers? 12 swimmers, yeah. Was it? You were there, weren't you? Yeah, you were always crew. You were crew. Ah, okay. Ah, okay. We were always back. Okay, um, we had a swimmer that was going along, happily, happily, happily, and then wasn't. Um, she was swimming, swimming, swimming. She took a wee pause, and then went under the water. Ah, I think that we've only had one other wee incident that we had to fly out a couple of years ago. Um, a little bit of cold inhalation, secondary drowning. I guess it's an alarming word to use, but that's what it was called. Ah, flow air, we swam off to the nearest hospital and central Otago. Yeah. Even once made a four recovery. That's wonderful. Oh. That's cool. Thank you for chatting to us. Yeah. You really appreciate it. Cheers, guys. We appreciate everything that you do for us. I know we give you a hard time, but thank you so much for looking at us. Ah, cheers, Duncan. Right back at you guys. Bye-bye. Cheers. Cheers. So, one of the key people that we have on our swim tours with us is Roger Solesby's beautiful wife, Jennifer, the number one girlfriend, the number one girlfriend, who looks off to us behind the scenes by assisting with all the meals and all the prep actually way harder than the swimmer than the swimming. Jennifer, what do you think about this ice swimming stuff? Wow. I can see all those swimmer. They are amazing. And then the people are working around too. And what can I do? I can't swim. I can't do anything. So, wow. I stay behind and help you a little bit. You help a lot, not a little bit. The food is amazing. The care and everything else is amazing. What did you make us for today at the Dalits and Bethan's Lake? I saw those chickens. So, and then I just mix it up and add a little bit more protein. Don't make it a big pot. Or, everyone. Yes, it come out quite nice. And then it was delicious. Hi. How do you get it all down to the side of the lake? How do you get it to the side of the lake? Ah. Why ping? It's coming down to do the... To help ping, you know, before that, if for the hot water, bottles. Pulling the flask. Yeah, yeah. Last last time. And yesterday. And then so they are coming down. So, wow. Drop me off. Better than Roger come up to ping me out. Okay. Cool. Save the time. To be warm, wrap it with towels, and then run with the bed roll. Yes. So, just like insulated. What time will you up this morning, making us all breakfast? I didn't make breakfast. Well, Roger got up around half past four. I was American. And the impact is still a little bit and got up to do it. I can't. I couldn't. I just got up at half past six. So, that's ridiculously amazing. What's Roger's famous breakfast that you can tell? Wow. Porridge with his antique stick. Yeah. You know. He never let me from that away. Oh, that stick, you know, broken ice. What's it called? A spurtle. A spurtle. And it's held. How old since we married before? Already got up. Thirty years. Thirty years more. So, a spurtle. It's a picture wooden. It's a Scottish porridge steering stick. Half a stick. Because the other half is screwed away over there. It's in the porridge. Yes. Well, thank you so much for looking last time. We appreciate it. Well, you are an amazing guy, you know. Really? Yeah, good. But God, it's the whole atmosphere. It just so happened. People are really sunshine. You are. Thank you so much, Jennifer. Excuse me. So, that's the end of our assuming summary. From Asadjum, an awesome event as per usual. And, you know, definitely something that I would consider putting on to your bucket list. If you haven't done an assroom before, the people are amazing, camaraderie, amazing, and being able to push yourself to a limit in a safe environment is pretty cool. It is absolutely. So, if anybody out there feels like they'd maybe like to give this crazy sport a bit of a go, maybe next winter, just reach out to us. We can always help you out or put you in touch with somebody who's local because there's nothing quite like doing it with somebody. See you. Nice. Cheers. Thanks, Caitlyn. Well, as always, you can give us feedback on our Instagram account at ClevverDix, or send us an email ClevverDix in Zed at GMT. And, you know, we've got a lot of things to do with it. So, that's it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much, ClevverDix, or send us an email ClevverDix in Zed at GMT.com. We'd really appreciate hearing from you, and cheers. We'll speak to you again soon.