E46 - Mike King - Funny Swimming.

He’s one of New Zealand’s most loved, straight-talking comedians, a mental health advocate, and the force behind I AM HOPE – the movement that’s changing the way Kiwis think about mental health. He’s been on stages around the world, behind the mic, in schools, in parliament – and now, he’s with us… a sort of honorary Clever Dick. 

Today, we’re sitting down with Mike King – to hear not just about his journey through life, laughter, and loss – but also his evolving relationship with the ocean. From backyard swims to bold new adventures, including his decision to take part in our SwimScape 12 x 1 Mile charity swim this November – raising awareness and support for men’s mental health.

Expect laughter, honesty, a few unexpected travel stories, and a whole lot of heart. This one’s real, raw, and refreshingly Mike.

Transcript

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Welcome to another Clever Dicks podcast. This podcast is going to be a bit different. On the 29th of November, there is going to be a charity swim, a 12 by 1 mile event. We were trying to raise some funds for mental health. And we're going to be supporting the I Am Hope charity. I Am Hope is the brainchild of Mike King. And this podcast, we're talking to Mike. We talked to him about the reasons that he set up his charity and what I Am Hope does for New Zealanders and how it supports mental health in New Zealand. Mike has done some swims, although he wouldn't classify himself as a swimmer. So we talk about that a bit as well. And he has promised to come along to the charity event and do at least some swimming. So the charity swim,

if you want to enter, is going to be at https: 1:00

//swimscape.co.nz. And if you want to know more about Mike's charity,

it is https: 1:08

//IAmHope.org.nz. Here we go. Enjoy the chat with Mike King. Welcome to another Clivetics podcast. In this podcast, we're talking to Mike King. Welcome, Mike. Another Clever Dick. Well, it seems a bit appropriate. So quite often we start off this podcast, mostly we interview people who've done a lot of swimming. And maybe you haven't done as much as some of our TVs. But there's a story behind that. But what we want is your story. So I've never been much of a swimmer. So when I was a kid, I grew up at an a place called Finoa Vivalage and I was born with holes in both ear drums. So I was born in 1962. The medical world wasn't where it is today. And so what they used to do with kids is they would take a grafted skin from behind ear, place it over the ear drum. And you would be stuck in hospital for six weeks with this giant ear muffin plugs all the way in. And at the end of the six weeks, and you're staying in the hospital for six weeks, so it was horrible for a kid to go away from the family and everything. Then they would take it off and they'd pull out the what's in the cotton wool in your ear. And suddenly, I could hear sounds that I'd never heard before. Incredible. And then they would make your whole genose and blow. And for the first three operations, I'd blow the skin graft off the ear drum and they'd go, oh well, we'll do it again. Seriously. Another six weeks. And go away, come back, have another operation, stay in hospital for six weeks. So I wasn't allowed near the water until I was 12 years old. And by that stage, it was just a swimming pool. I wasn't a capable swimmer. I remember the first time that swimming swore I was like, can you swim? Oh, how are you? I can swim. And so I had to swim the length of 25 meter pool. I just didn't take a breath. Just made it right then and they went, now you're in the learners. What the fuck you want about? I made it. You're not breathing. Yes, I am. I breathed when I got to the end. So me and me and swimming had a lot of hate relationships. Every summer I was that kid that would just lie at the poolside and purve on all the girls. That was, you know, it was me. So it's a skill set. Yeah, it's so important. I love summer. I love the water. But I guess that that scarred me that fact that I wasn't as good as everyone else. And I'm one of those people that if I can't do it better than someone, I ain't doing it. You know, if I can't be better than average, I ain't doing it. Because my competitive spirit won't let me. So swimming was never going to be my thing. So it's a screw swimming. So fast track, I don't know what 30 years or something like that. And you you landed up swimming a charity event together with Rick Wells. Fast track. 48 years. 48 years. Okay. 48 years. Rick Wells. He said, well, we're going to raise some money for your charity. And I said, oh, yeah, cool. So, you know, I sort of think they have planned. We're going to do a triathlon. And we're going to triathlon from Cape Rienge down to Wellington, swimming, riding and running. I said, cool. That's, you know, and we're going to raise some money for your charity. It's awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. So whatever you need, resourcing, you know, posters, anything you need, I've got to guess now you're doing with this. And bro, I can't even swim. And he said, I'll teach you. I said, bro, you're onto a loser here. There's no way in house at the first lesson that I went to was at New Market Pool. And Rick made me swim 25 meters. So, you know, I had my, you know, my beach shorts on, you know, you know, down to the knees. Yeah, the baggies. And I jumped in the water. And at one point, both arms were facing backwards towards my feet at the same time. Well, apparently, yeah, apparently they're not supposed to be like that, you know, one supposed to be forward and you're supposed to be rolling over. You know, I got to the end and I barely made it 25 meters. Seriously, I've got the video of it. And at the end, I was reaching about a meter and a half early to the wall and just trying to get, and I was, that was it, I was shattered, had to get out. And he goes, oh, we've got a little bit to work on. And so over the next year, well, nine months really, he just kept getting me in that pool and just kept me going. So, I'm one of those, my body mass is different from everybody else. So I look like, you know, I'm quite lean and, and, you know, I look like I weigh about 85 to 87 kg, where I'm 110. No worries. Yeah, big bones. Wow. Big bones. So even when I was playing rugby, you know, I used to be that skinny fellow at first five and, you know, loose forwards and everyone else was wondering how the hell I could bump them up. So I got really heavy bones. And what that meant was, I would think, like, you know, you know, the first thing that hit you was to lie on your back. And as soon as that happens, my feet just dropped to the bottom. No matter what I do, they just drop down, you know. And so I said, look, this is going to be a problem. So I've put me in those wetsuit pants, chit-charts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Put me in those. And that helped a little bit, but I was still planning through the water, feet down. And then he encouraged me to wear flippers. And the flippers were the thing, were a game changer. Suddenly, I felt like I was doing it right. You know, and it's really interesting. You think, you know, I watched all the videos online. And, you know, I thought I was doing it perfectly. And then, Rick would film me and I'd go, oh my god, I'm embarrassing. You know, and it keeps your heads down. My head is fucking down. Look, it's in the water. Like, my face is wet, bro. The head's down, man. What are you talking about? And like, I noticed what he was talking about when I saw it on the film. It's kind of like, either you play golf. I'm very occasionally. Well, you know, it's like, when you play a massive golf shot. And you think, Jesus, that has to have looked like Tiger Woods. It was so good. And then you made, oh, I got that on film. And then you look at it, you're fucking racist. Just erasing. It's the worst ugly ass, you know, arms going everywhere. Man, that was the same with my swimming. My golf expertise is the same as your swimming expertise. Yeah. So, you know, the hard part for me was looking down at the bottom, looking down at the bottom of the pool. I really struggle with that because, you know, I have a great fear of sharks. I was brought up in the 70s when jaws came out. So, even in the bath, all I hear is Dunant. Dunant. Dunant. Dunant. Dunant. Break through the walls. And I'll say to Rick, you know, I go, mate, every time, you know, I'm swimming, I hear the thing from jaws. So, what do you mean, I go, Dunant. Dunant. Dunant. Yes, I don't worry about it. You only have to worry when you're, Dunant. Dunant. Dunant. Dunant. Dunant. And then the other thing you told me, you guys are so refreshing, you know, like the water, you don't have to think about anything. It's just one arm in front of the other. Just follow that black line. It's so soothing. I've got an overactive mind. My mind does not stop. So, you know, there is no such thing. When he said, look at the black line. What black line? Well, there's only one black line down there. Look at it more. Honestly, right there. So, why do you always say, well, shut up, I'm trying to swim. These were the things I could relax. So, it was a real, it was a real struggle for me, you know, and then getting into the ocean. But the game changer was my wife. I bought her a paddleboard and she doesn't use it like a stand-up. We put a seat on it. Oh, yeah. And she'd paddle beside me. So, I'd just be swimming and, you know, my daughter and wife would be on the thing. So, we went out to Marietta and just started out a couple of hundred meters. You know, before I knew it, I was swimming from one end to the other, past, you know, to the wharf and back. Or then I look at my finger. That's 1.86 kilometers. I should have done 140. Right. I want to swim back down the other end, right down the other end. And then I come back and I go, oh, damn, it was 2.2. I should have gone to, you know, so numbers got me. And then then I'd be at the pool and I'd put it on my board, an apple watch. So, I'm doing the links there. And then, like you sometimes on the podcast, I forgot to push the go button. And then I look at, like I'd already done 500, right? I've done half a kilometer. But if it's not on the watch, it didn't count. And I have to do two kilometers. So, now I'm doing two and a half kilometer. And I'm constantly beating myself up. But, you know, I grew up, I grew up when we stalked my people from up in Russell. Yeah. I had a little place called Rafferty. And so, Pi here was kind of like my town. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, as a kid growing up, I always used to look Pi here to Russell and go, oh, I'd love to be able to swim that. I'd love to be able to. And it was, there was no way in hell I could do it. And on my 60, 60th birthday, I'm like, yeah, the 59 bit of the 60s. Four and a half kilometers, I think five kilometers. Yeah. Well, because, you know, we're ratcheted direction. And so, so me and me, all mate, there was an old boy on the tour there, old Davey. Now, we swam together. And, you know, so we saw them like, oh, come on, they fucked them. Let's go. So we're going, we're going, we're going. And, you know, we've got a kilometer head start on them. And, superly, we thought, well, this is going really well, you know, and we get to the war, you know, it's like, wow, look at this. We need to look up and those guys are all up there dressed, having to be just, yeah, didn't even feel them. Yeah, did it, did it. And then the next day, when I was 19 years old, I shipped out in the merchant navy. And one of the first ships that I was out on was called the Umakura. It was a tanker. So we were anchored at Marsden Point. And then the next day, there was the opportunity to swim from Fungarday heads to Marsden Point across the. That's huge. Yeah. So I was like, right, I'm up for that. And there was a miscommunication. So our lifesaver, you know, the guy on the jet ski, he was late. By the time he got there, the tide had turned. And anyway, I was swimming in there for about good 45 minutes. Let me tell my look, I've got my point reference point. Keep looking at this red one. For those of you who don't know, I'm actually mimicking swimming there. And my head's still not in the water. So I'm looking at this bloody tree and it has a move for 45 minutes. So the jet ski guy's right beside me has get on. You're not going anywhere. Get on. So he had to take us about two kilometers down the road. And I didn't realize how strong the tide was until we were going past those big poles in the middle of the, you know, those, I don't know what they're called in the middle of the ocean. We just called the green stick, red stick. Yeah, yeah, that thing, the port and the bow side, you know, the ship markers. And the wake coming off those was incredible. So he took us all the way down and then we were able to swim back like I was floating on your back. But that's awesome. Yeah, so we got rescued the very next day. And then I was on, Matt, my walk for the whole thing. And it was on my phone. So I've got a track. And what happens when we swim out and we immediately got pushed out to the middle and then we're actually going backwards as we were swimming. And then we got towed up. But no one made it across except Rick. And one other guy, Ian Jones even caught a lift back. And Ian does triathlon. He was strong. He got dragged back. Rick pulled up about 40 minutes after us. And even he said that was the hardest swim in his life. But they swam directly to the tankers and they got as close to the shore as they could finish it off. But he said at one point, he grabbed one of those things and one of the lane markers. Yeah. So that was my swimming experience. I had one more swim from there and that was across Wellington Harbor. And when I say Wellington Harbor, I only mean from the pool on the Oriental Parade across to the museum. So it wasn't a giant swim. But fuck, it was cold. Yeah, it is pretty cool. That's the length of, you know, that's the summary of my swimming experience. I really enjoyed it. I mean, it's a great form of fitness. I remember, you know, I'd say to Rick, yes, how's it going? You know, because I'll text them all all my days. I'd try and do two K a day. And at the local pool in Puppetsoy, 50 meter outside pool. And I would text them and I'd go, I got a sore shoulder. Your technique's wrong. I go, well, I guess thing was swimming. If anything aches, your technique's wrong. So it give me a little wee tweak on the technique and I have to start again. Oh, she got it. Did you find a difference between swimming in a pool, fish water as opposed to being in the ocean? Oh, yeah. Ocean's easier. Yeah. Ocean was much, much easier. And it's less boring because you're worrying about sharks. That's all I do. I got to a point truth story. You know, I got to a point where I so come to, you know, went out to Raro and I'd swim five K a day, you know, along the beach in a big man. Yeah. And then, you know, the first time I swam, swam on white here, I did three kilometers there. First time I've ever had sea life swam up underneath me, a sting rat. I can shit myself out. I truly shit myself. And I was like, I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. So I'm just looking at this thing and I just swam off. Yeah. Another time I was at Audiva. And I was swimming from one end of audit from the camp right down to the clover and back. And I'm swimming along. I'm swimming along. I see half a snapper. Still flickering. You know, half a snapper, I don't know. Oh, where's that in the hole? Yeah. I know. It was a point. You know, I was like, okay, you know, so these are, these are the little, well, we had a, a mate and I were swimming along in this paddleboard. It comes and says, I don't want to disturb you, but there's a bronzy over there. Well, if you didn't want to disturb us, why didn't you keep quiet? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it was an interesting journey, but I really did, I really did enjoy it. But it was very challenging. So I really liked the ocean swimming. My wife was quite disturbed, but because, you know, I'm old. I've had a couple of strokes in my life. I've got, you know, I've had a couple of hard procedures. So she's like, you know, when I don't turn up. So she bought me one of those little wee bobby things. It sits out the back so she could watch me. So floats yeah, like in like audio, for example, I was gone for a good two hours. I mean, it looks so easy that swim. That's tough. Two kilometres down the one end and two kilometres. And like, you know, I'm the type of guy. I pick a rock and I have to get and touch it. You know, I can't just go and get a hundred metres by and swim back. I've got to get to where I've got to complete it. So one time there, you know, I'm swimming back and hearing my mate are on the beach and I'm like, I'm going and I could see that. I saw what's up. She's giving me an operation. I don't have any. Me, me, me, me, I'm like, penicking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, she bought me one of those floaties. What was pretty cool. Yeah, they are, they are good. It helps with the visibility. Yeah. So we're looking at doing a charity swim to support your charity coming up. I was, um, maybe you could just know. Have a great weekend, Mark, you seem to be going to come in a budget smug there and no, no, no, no, no, no. Maybe you could just tell us a little bit about the charity and then we'll convince you to join it. Charity is great. That's all you need to know. No. I know you're real purpose. And it's, uh, it's an H to the E to the double L notes. Anyway, so the charity. So, um, our charity's been going since 2009. Um, we've had three iterations of the charity. The first iteration was, uh, the charity was called the Nutters Club. So, um, back in 2007, I gave up drugs and alcohol. Uh, finally, when I saw a counselor and acknowledged that, you know, this little voice in my head was annoying me. I want to say voice. It's not a voice. It's just that, you know, that, um, that little voice of doubt, you know, that, uh, you know, that, that little voice that tells you, you're not good enough. Now, I've had that from childhood. My dad was a good, um, good sportsman musician, good looking, could do all of those things. You know, I was four foot eleven buck teeth, big ears, rubber lips, couldn't play an instrument. Uses sports. I was hopeless at everything. So I never, you know, I always felt like I was a disappointment to my dad. My brother, you know, he was a solid kid, really good at art, good at, good at carving anything. You know, he was, you know, he got a nickname. He got the nickname, but I got to mow the lawns. You know, there was a sort of thing that I hitchhiked to my sports games. The old man used to take my brother to his sports game. All of those sorts of things. I finally acknowledged, you know, so because I had no self-esteem, I would get my self-esteem from the approval of others. And, you know, I always dreamt of being rich and famous. Why? Because famous people, everyone loves them. That was every young person. Everyone loves famous people. And, and money gives you choice. You can do whatever you like if you, you know. And, so when I finally did on a million to one shot, by being a, starting the stand-up comedy industry and in New Zealand, there wasn't any stand-up comedians. When I was in the merchant navy, you know, I travel all around the world, so I'd get to see, you know, film of stand-up comedians. So, you know, I always wanted to be a comedian, even as a kid. So when I pursued my comedy career, I finally got it. You know, it was kind of like, you know, it's like, I find to be like those, you know, those golden gates where you metaphorically go through these golden gates and, you know, you're in a ticket parade and everyone's cheering your name and, you know, that was supposed to be the thing that satisfied me and the thing that told me that I was worthy. When those golden gates opened, there was my big head looking at me again. It's still a loser. And you're never going to amount to anything. So that's when I turned to drugs and alcohol hard. You know, I'd always been like a drug addict in an alcoholic, but to, you know, a functioning level. So then I, you know, to shut that voice up, all those drugs and alcohol to drown it out. And then I gave up, when I gave up in 2007 after a suicide attempt in Hong Kong and a hotel room in Hong Kong, I'd given up, I'd kind of, I'd had a stroke in 2013 at the Aussie Millions Poker Tunnel and ended up with lockdown syndrome. And so, lockdown syndrome is where you can't move anything. The only thing that comes out of your mouth is dribble, but you can hear everything. So people would come up to me and go, my God, you're right. And then it turned to my my God, he's fucked. Then he looked at him, you know, he dribbling away, then he's fucked. So, and, you know, in my head I was going, even if I could talk to you, a loser, I wouldn't talk to you, you know. So I had this. And while I was in this, this thing, you get lots of time to think, you know, so I was just, how long were you in that state? About four hours. Four hours. So, you know, I had the doctor say to my mate, you mate's had a stroke. We've got a drug that can save him, but it can also kill him. And I may say, yep, give him the drug. As I can't do that, need his wife's permission or his family's permission. And he said, that's right, his wife's coming over, he gets how long she's going to take it here. She's fine from New Zealand. She'll be here later on tonight. He gets too late. He got four hours to do this. And then if we can't get it in four hours, you know, my mate says, so what happens? Well, sometimes they come out at the time they don't. And it was my mate who started screaming. He liked the mad butcher, you know, come on, mate, come on, then I need you. And miraculously, I came out. And the first thing I said when I could finally talk, it took me about an hour to actually formulate words. I mean, it's really weird, because the only word that I could say when I came out was Whenuapai. So the doctor would ask me, you know, what's your name? Whenuapai. And he agreed to my mate. It was his name, Whenuapai. And he goes, no, his name's Mike. What's your question? Whenuapai. This is my son. No, he named Rose. And he was an Indian doctor, sorry, an Asian doctor with an Australian accent. What's when you're in this state? It was real headfuck, you know, yeah, what the hell is going on here? Where am I? Yeah. And he just said to my mate, he goes, oh, best I stop answering. I best I stop asking him questions with four letter answers. I was like, you know, so I finally came out. The first thing I said, I was able to articulate was give me the drug. And the other man, I go, I heard everything, give me the drug. I don't care. Give me the fucking drug. And he said, okay, yep, we'll do that. We've got to give you a cat scan first. They put me in the cat scan machine. I was talking to this nurse and something had another stroke in the machine. So I was back in that state again and came out. And my mate said, you know, the nurse said, oh, you mates have to the doctor. He said another stroke. I don't think they use that word, but that's what he's got another stroke. And so the doctor said, oh, shit. And we'll have to wait. And my mate said, wait for what? He got permission to give him the drug because of my head. I was just giving the fucking drug. And the guy said, I can't just give him the fucking drug. I was here. So he gave it to me and you know, six hours later, I was able to come good. But while I was there, he said, it takes me a long while to get to a point. Yeah. While I was there, I was thinking, you know, I've got to make some changes here. And, you know, I'm not a religious man, but when you're fucked, you pray to anyone, right? And took out an insurance policy. I said, if you give me another shot at the title, I'm going to change. You know, and I thought of all of the things that I could have done that I didn't do. And how I became obsessed with fame and fortune. And so when I came out, I decided I was going to give up drugs and alcohol. Now, at the time, I thought I'd given up for months, but the reality was, I'd given up for maybe, maybe two weeks. And then I was in Hong Kong. So like, you know, by that, I mean, I came back. I thought I was going to give up. And I didn't. And I carried on that. That's hard. Yeah. Two weeks into March. I'd said, that was it. And I had a travel company at that stage. And you know, I used to take people over to sports events. And so I took a group out of the Hong Kong sevens, which was usually just a coke and a coke and piss up coke and piss up. Yeah. So I got over there and decided I wasn't going to do it. And that was it. I'm done. So I should drop the team off my package off at the game. And then I would say, I'd fake a headache and illness. And then I took off. And I was walking down one try and which is a party part of Hong Kong. And Molly, if I'd come up to me and say, well, what are you doing? I said, I had a tube of healing. She goes, oh, she's going for a drink, bro. And I'm like, oh, bro, I've given up. And he went, nah, bro, you've given up a New Zealand boat. And I'm like, yeah, you know, I had it. And that little voice went, yeah, my here, we're back. And so I, you know, after three days on a huge bender, where I was just sitting in my hotel room. I was kind of like, kind of like what's the name from Scarface? I had a mountain of cocaine. And my plan was, I'll just snort this O.D. And then everyone go, well, my king's so cold even out O.D. You know, I couldn't kill myself for that, you know, or make it look obvious. And then while I was in that, you know, my daughter, who was then eight years old, came and sat on my chest and visited me and said, what are you doing? You got to come home. So I went home and got clean and sober. And then I was angry, you know, I was just spending time at home. I wasn't going anywhere because I just had to get away from all my, um, devices. So I didn't realize when you give up drugs and alcohol, you don't give up drugs and alcohol. You give up your life. And all the influence, you know, you may say, oh, come on, Mikey, it's just as fast. Just as fast. You know, just, it's all good. Oh, well, it's there and you want to. So I just cut myself off. And, um, one day I got a job on radio and, you know, talk back host, never done that shit before, but I think that was going to be hard. Pick a headline, talk about it and fucking people ring in, you know. And so, you know, one night I went in there on the first night and I was talking about, hey, you know, I see interest rates are going up and you're affected by interest rates. Give us a call. Oh, 845, oh, 800 radio live. And then I would know and ring and I'd say, oh, not so many people on the, on the lines right now, but we get to them right up the break. And I'd come after the break, still knowing. And I'm like, hey, look, there's people we want to talk about that. But I've seen something else in there in the paper. And you know, bloody, bloody, you know, you know, it gives a call. I went, I went, I went, I read nothing. You know, I went through every subject, you know, like, you know, if you, you know, there's a plane crash on the other side, if you've been in the plane crash, give us a call. It turns out not many people get out of plane crash. So, you know, it's a piece of paper blowing down the road. If you've got paper blowing down, you know, and you know, then we got another ad and my producer went, there's no more ads. And so I'm sitting there about 30 minutes of airtime to fill. And so I'd just sit in there and, you know, what, what I was saying was, I've, you know, one of those is, and just swear, swear, swear, swear. They start, I swear, and people, they'll be complaining, but they'll be gone. Don't swear, just tell them the truth. Tell them there's no one there. Shout out, what he was, and then I just went, ah, bugger it. So I just said, you know, hey, I've been lying to you out there. There's no one on the lines. And if you don't call in the next two minutes at 10 seconds, someone just can start talking to the voices and mead. And that's what I did. You know, the reason no one's calling is because everyone hates you out there. They don't hate you. They haven't done it. Having done it. It's up past 10 or 9. No one, he's done it up past 10 or 9. No one wants to talk to this loser. He's not a loser. Why do you always call him a regular loser? His name's Mike. Why do you always call him in? You know, I had my eyes closed. And I was just this, this verbal diary. You were talking a life. Yeah, verbal diary. I was just saying what was going on. And my producer went, you better take the course. And I looked down, I had a full board of lights. First fellow ever rang me and his name was Rangi. You know, he's a Māori fella called Rangi. I knew he was a Māori because his fucking name was Rangi. And I said, hey, Boo, you're my first caller. Well, I'm going to the show. I was like, boo, boo, boo. And I'm going to hear him. I have those voices too. So it was like, you know, suddenly another Māori man, male, was saying that he has the same experiences as me. And it was just like this giant white head lifted off my shoulders. And so we had a great conversation, me and Rangi, you're seven of us. His voices, my voices, and as we talked, it literally gave permission to other people to talk. So what started out is the late night talk show by Friday. Next day, Caminoa agreed headlines all, we can talk about what we talked about last night, bam. So by Friday, we were the nothings club, you know, just nothing to be amazing. Yeah, ringing in the talking. But it's a learning space, right? Because I mean, we're all our swam that we're doing in November. We're going to raise as many funds as we can for flying up. I love you for that. Thank you. Thank you. But the seminar checked quite a bit and and there's a there's a lot of stuff happening for and it's amazing. Keep doing it for women, for children. There's tons of stuff. There is a huge, huge, I'm not going to say battle, but you know, there's a huge need out there for many very, very, very worthy organizations. And it's tough, you know, I, you know, since the government announced we, you know, my king got $24 million, my king didn't get $24 million. The Ministry of Health got $24 million. And, you know, and they fund us, you know, once a month, they give us a check, but all of that money goes to the, to the councilors. So we don't take an album fee, we don't take one cent of it. So got all of these bills to cover. I stupidly thought we were getting $24 million and I'll be able to put it in the bank and the interest rate would cover the rest of it. So, you know, I've got my own cost to me, but because everyone thinks we've got $24 million, you know, people are donating to other worthy charities. And so in October last year, we had 19 staff. Eight of them moved on to bigger and brighter things. And I'm not in a position to replace them. You know, we're at the moment, we got more money going up and coming in and we're very frugal about how we're a national organisation with 11 staff. So, you know, it's tough for everyone. I'm not complaining about it. It's just the reality. It's just the reality. So you can sit around and winge like a little bit, so you can just get off your ass and make something happen there. Have you tried phoning one of your core centers and having a complaint and see if I can help you with your problem? So, you know, I really, really do try and not get resentful. You know, it's hard. It's hard. It's hard. I mean, the reason I got into this charity was, you know, once I got into it, I knew what the need was. I knew we could cover the need and we could cover it cheaper than anybody else. Yep, cheaper, faster, safer. CleverDex is New Zealand's largest swim focused podcast. And our team at Swimscapes is proud to be their official partner with all things swimming. Swimscapes offers both piloting and safety for solar marathon swims, as well as various packages including marathon relay swims, swim camps, and swim adventure holidays. Swimscapes is also a facilitator of the Auckland Triple Crown coming soon, proudly brought to you by Swimscapes. And so, I was hustling all the time trying to get the government to, you know, point, not the government, but the ministries to see the worth of what we're doing. And, you know, they just may be running, running, running circles and get more and more and more bitter. And in one day, I just stopped, you know, and just face the reality, you're never going to get funding. This is frustrating you. So, stop throwing negatives at the problem and start throwing positives at the solution. You know, the demand is there, the need is there, the people are there. Let's just go and try and do it and live off donations. And, you know, when we started Gumboop Friday, we decided that 100% of the money was going to the counsellors. And that really, really resonated with ordinary New Zealanders because we all wonder, you know, tell me, put that money on that file. Fucking hell, it's just going to you. And how it's just going to that, you know, when you hear horrific statistics of certain charities taking 70% of their money for admin, I don't think it's true, but it's still there and you can't. It's a system people's minds and makes them more cautious about it. So, I thought bugger it. And so, we asked the New Zealand public. And, you know, they believe in so much over the next three years, they don't add $15 million to I am hope to give the counsellors. So, yeah, now the government's coming, you know, the pendulum swung the other way, but that's okay. You know, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. So, eternally grateful to the ministry, you know, and we're proving that, you know, that we are delivering, you know, before the government funded us every week, you would read a story about there aren't enough counsellors, you know, and the minister of how to be there, it's a capacity issue and it's a blah, blah, blah, it's a blah, blah, blah. And, you know, they asked me the other day, how do you know that this is successful? I got, well, there's no stories on shortages of counsellors, you know. That's exactly it. Yeah, we're meeting the need on time under budget. What else you want, you know. Yeah, it's kind of like the, the whole, this is about mental health, but primary health care, whether it's mental or physical. If you do it really well, there's no stories because people aren't really getting, it's not getting bad and you get to generate stories, because you kind of fix it almost as it's starting and you know, put in the butters at work. That's the way that I kind of think about a lot of this work. So what I did was, you know, I look for simple solutions to complicated problems. So, you know, capacity was the issue. The minister would always go, you know, we need 3,000 counsellors, there are 3,000 counsellors, we've got to train 3,000 counsellors, we've got to do this. Well, when we started Come Boot Friday and put it out there that we would pay the market rate, which is $150 an hour, or it was 135 back then, we'll pay the market rate, we're flooded with counsellors. So the issue to me wasn't there weren't enough counsellors, the issue was there weren't enough counsellors who were willing to work for $30 an hour and be overworked. Yes. So, but if you pay a counsellor what they're worth. So then, then I was a target because you're overpaying counsellors and you're making it impossible for us to recruit staff. And, you know, that sounds like it's a reasonable argument and it's who you look at it. So, counselling services before this were unlike taxi companies. So, you know, you'd go and do the RFP, that pick 3 taxi companies, then you'd get a building, you'd put all your staff inside the building, then you'd go out and buy taxi ranks or lease taxi ranks, then you'd get the cars and then you get the driver. Now, the driver's the counsellor. Now, if you want to get to that counsellor, that taxi, you've got to go to the taxi rank and you have to take the first cab off the rank. You can't choose which, in mental health, that is like, but I've derrilled my driver. You know, derrilled knows my story. Yes. Well, I've got your file. So, so it was this, you know, just created more and more anxiety. Now, the cost and the wait time on that, the wait time on that was some, for some people, six months. That's great. You know, to get the taxi that they were and the actual cost because it covers that whole infrastructure is $485. Nothing about it. You're paying the counsellor between $30 and $60 an hour. So, where's the other $425 going? It's going on. Edmund, we invented Uber. You take care of your own costs. You have your own car. You have your own office. You just charged me an hourly rate. And at that stage, it was $135. So, we were saving $350 a counselling session. So, it's just, it's finding unique solutions to complex problems. You know, and the other thing that I try and do is I try and I try and form people about, you know, how simple certain things are. For example, if you asked me say, you know, and I worked for, you know, the traditional service, say, you know, so Mike, you know, why do people get suicidal while they're killing them? And I'd say, wow, that's a very complex question, you see, because there's so many different reasons. It can be this. It can be that. It can be all. And so, you know, we're trying not to talk about this. So, you know, and I don't mean this in a cruel way, but it's like, like they're saying, look, there's a very complex issue. It's very dangerous to talk about. So, leave it to the experts with the experts. So, it's about controlling, I'm not controlling the narratives as it sounds harsh, but you know what I mean. So, so what I discovered was when I would do my talks and talk about self-doubt and I would talk about, you know, my suicide ideation and what was driving me, people would come to my talks and go, my son told his own life two years ago and his suicide letter is everything you just said. And then I would show me everything you've described was my son. And so, you know, I looked at what I was describing, what I discovered, but there were three reasons that people took their own lives. Only three. One, I'm hurting. I'm in pain and I need the pain to stop. Now, for an old person, that could be physical pain. You've seen old people suffering and just go, oh, look at Jim at the moment. Look, I just want out of here. So, one, I'm hurting. I don't want to die. I just want my pain to end. You know, for young people, let's see, you know, it could be a relationship. It could be whatever it is, right? So, one, I'm hurting. Two, I'm causing hurt. Like this is going on for so long. I feel like I'm a burden to everyone and everyone will be better off without me. I walk in the rooms. I suck the energy from the room. You know, my friends, I think they're looking at me like, you know, so if I got out of the way, you guys would all have a better life. So, one, I'm hurting. Two, I'm causing hurt. Three, I want to cause hurt. You hurt me. Now, I'm going to hurt you. So, at the heart of all suicide ideation, it's just people who are hurting. They're not drama queens. They're not attention seekers. They're not selfish. Not all the labels we've done. They're just people who are hurting and they want their hurt to end. So, our job as a society is to put aside all of our prejudice thoughts and just carry this person for as long as we can until we can do something about that hurt. Now, it's not going to work with everyone, but at least if you have an understanding because, you know, if you continue to come to me with your issues, then I'll start playing with myself. And if I said, he, what's wrong? I don't know. It must be me. It must be me. And then you either get down on yourself or you get hurt and you get resentful, which creates, oh, I've tried everything. And you know, this bastard and that, you know, so it's this giant circle. You've got yourself down. Myself down. We're all blaming each other. And it's, you know, it's horrible. But if you have an understanding so you can remove yourself from what you think it is and listen and, you know, and try and get people to a better place, you know, I'm not saying it's, it's the be all and end all, but no one was talking about it. So then I did a study. It's called 1000 Letters. Anyone who's listening, you're going on. Just 1000 Letters, Mike King. And the criticism that I got from Ashley Bloomfield from the ethics committee, you know, you're not, you're not qualified to do this. And this is a complex thing. And people will die if you start meddling. And well, I, you know, I had two researchers that worked for the Ministry of Health do it for me. I wasn't doing it. I'm a dumbass, but I had two experts do it. And what we found was, was amazing. It went against the narrative that's always pushed, so the narrative that's always pushed on suicide is, suicide is an impulsive act. It's based around impulsivity, you know, at the last minute. So when the numbers come down, they go, wow, you know, the numbers have come down, they're not where they should be. But you can see, you know, we're doing our best and the numbers, you know, and then when they got, wow, if someone wants to take their own life, you see this, nothing you can really do about it. So one of the first discoveries we found was over 90 percent of the people, and these people had ended their lives. So these letters that came in, they were actual people who had ended their lives. Over 90 percent of those people had long term issues, even if their deaths came as a surprise to those closest to them. And we're not talking weeks or months. In some cases, we're talking years and decades. There's always this feeling that when you lose someone, you know, maybe if I'd loved them more, you know, maybe if I'd done this, maybe I'd done it. Secondly, over 90 percent of the people who took knew that they were loved, and they loved back. But that was, you know, for a lot of them, was a burden, you know, it's kind of like, oh my god, you know, I can't keep putting these people through it. So it had nothing to do about love, you know. So, and people who submitted the letters and saw that and saw all the other evidence, it was a huge relief to them. Because when someone dies close to you, you can't help it blame yourself and you can't help but think everyone else is blaming you. And the thing that really, really struck me was number three. And the majority of the cases where people died took their own lives. They didn't want to die. They just wanted their pain to end. And they thought that there was no end in sight. You know, and what happened to that, it was squashed. The whole Ashley Bloomfield refused to read it, said it was dangerous, and he was never going to read that. And it was just like, oh, so, so disappointed for the New Zealand public, clearly an opportunity to get, you know, to get, yeah, changing the, changing the story of it. It's an error, you know, and just helping people to understand. This is why. And, you know, so when you say this, you're just lumping more shit on, you know, you know, you're not there. The empathy you've got out there, the video is going to be. But also break it down into some kind of understanding, right? We don't all need a big thesis in it. And we want the doctors telling us what to do. Everything is simple. So what's the big story at the moment? The police aren't going out to mental health calls anymore. So everyone's having a go at the police. Should be doing this and you should be doing that, right? That's, you know, why have the police stopped doing this? Because they're not trained for it. No, nuts. Oh, we've got a train police to be in this and we've got to train more people to train the people. The solution's simple. We've got a crisis mental health team that work at every DHB who refuse to go out when someone's in trouble, if they've, you know, if they've been drinking, if they're at risk, if they've violent, blah, blah, blah, because they're concerned about safety. Well, that makes perfect sense. Why not put half of them in the police station? Yeah. And now the police can do their job. And the, the, the, the, the health workers can do their job on sites, hand in hand, partnership. Yeah. So, you know, hey, hey, Joe, I'm coming now. I have a couple of policemen with me that, they're my friends. They're just my taxi. They're not going to get involved. I'll introduce you to them. They're lovely guys, but I'm coming to specifically. I think you're so good. My, my daughter is a paramedic over in the UK and they, she was part of a trial that they ran where they would have two policemen and a paramedic on call all the time. Yeah. And it was great because they, they would go along to domestic violence and all kinds of things like that. They shut the whole project down because they couldn't justify it. But that's as she said, she got great relationships with these police, police guys and, and as a team, they could do more than they could ever do on their own. So, it's so, you know, it's such a simple solution. So, where's the specialist into that? Where's the cost? There is no cost. You're already paying that, dude. You're already paying these, dude. I just reckon if you can make those cops swim, Americans swim, then the problems are all solved. If you can make them swim, get people out there swimming, looking after them. Glenn Osborne, if you are listening, you're a great old blank, but I've seen your feet pro. I've seen your feet. You can do this brother. Hey, two things for my side and then I'm going to keep quiet and give your day back. One is, do you still haul us around town on that little Vespa? Of course. Yeah, with the music area. Yes, of course. So, I, you know, so I don't do the electric around the city. Yeah. Simply because the battery life, like, you know, on a normal size human, you get 120. Got a heavy bones. Yeah, 40, 40. It tops it taps out. I 40 with me. So, I have another bike on my 50 cc scooter that I rode from bluff to capri here. Yep. I ride around that. Nice. And I love it. So, I live out in Papitori in South Auckland to come into the city in the morning by car. It's 90 minutes on my 50 cc. It is 27 minutes from Papitori to here. Legend. Yeah. So, I love that. Last question. You've got to repeat off to me as quick as possible by thinking. I'm my king. I'm my king. I'm going to see you on the 29th of November. Let me have a look at my diary. It's the 29th of, 29th of November. No, you can see me right now. I'm going down to the 29th. I'm going to swim with you. I'm going to see you on the 29th of November at Yaki Beach. Yaki Beach. 12 by 1 mile. How do you spell that? W-A-I-E-K-E Yaki. Yaki. Yaki. Yaki. Because it sounds like Yaki. So, it's Yaki. It's Haki without the H. So, what time are we going to kick off? The registration at 6am first from at 7pm. But you can come at 7pm or 11pm. It doesn't matter when you come. So, how long will we be there for 12 hours will we? 12 hours. From 7 to 7pm. Yes. Okay. I promise I will come. Yeah. I will be there. It seems I'm allowed. Well, I can't swim with that a wetsuit. Oh. My one doesn't have to count. No. But I will come. I will be there and I will do it. But I remember right, funny story, right? So, I did the, you know, that swim across the under the Harbour Bridge. Yeah. Now, I never thought in a million years that I was going to do that, right? It's a tough swim. But Jones in them got me out. That was a chop. And I'm saying that. And I love how they do it. You know, slow swim is done as far as I'm as all of that, right? Different color caps. Yeah. Different color caps. So, you know, I was down there and I was, and I know I was shitting myself, right? So, you know, people will come in past. Oh, you're going to wear your flippers. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to wear my flippers dickhead. But of course, I don't care what you think. I'm wearing my flippers. No, no, no, no, it's good. It's good. So, you know, I'm sitting there. I'm putting my flippers on and the lady came down and sat next to me and she goes, you look nervous. I go, I am crapping myself. I've never done this boy. She goes, look, I know how you feel that you can do it. I'm like, yeah, whatever lady, you're a swimmer. I'm not a swimmer. Then she took off her leg, passed it to her husband and jumped in with one leg. I thought, fuck, I've got to go now. And she beat me, you know, but I was just like the difference and, you know, the different challenges for different people. But she inspired me to do that. And then I got under the bridge. I got two fishermen's wolf. I did the two Ks, the long one. And then, and then I was swimming. And I got under the bridge as I was coming back. And I went, woohoo! And I put my arm up. And of course, everyone's on the pad like that. And they're like, you are I'm just celebrating. Sorry. You don't put your ass. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Can't save you. That's so cool. Yeah. Now, you know, again, and you get this, this wonderful, you know, sense of accomplishment when, you know, when, you know, for someone like me to do something like that, you know, and still to this day, I'm like, you know, when I'm to get out of the bridge with my guy. Swam across the map. Swam across the air. I don't want to, I don't want to talk about it. You know, of course, we were swimming against the tide and there was nine meter waves. I just, yeah, I just, I did through back. I did through. No luck guys needed. Yeah. Wonderful. Wonderful. Yep. So I'd love to see you 29th out of way, at your beach, 29th of November, registration 6am. So what do people have to bring? Do they bring money? Do they bring money? So we have a given little page that's been set up, which I have shared the link of on our Instagram account. And it's also on our website, swamskap.co.nz. And we are just accepting all the nations that go directly through to you guys. There is a small entry fee that helps us cover the costs of lifeguards and all of those good things on the day. We will have a couple of gazebo's there. We'll have a bride, not a barbeque. I love a bride. I love a bride. I love a bride. We're in the first bride portal Elizabeth. Nice. And so there we go. It's Barry Hilton. My cousin. My cousin. My cousin from another brother. Man, man, she's had mental health issues himself of late. So, you know, he's a good brother. He's a legend, yeah. Yeah. So I'm being bad. So I know what a bride is. I'm looking forward to that. Now, I have one request from you. I'll need to start training for this in August. So at New Market Pool. So if anyone wants to come training, the bro here's going to give me a reminder. Three days a week. I'm the bro just for reference. Yeah. And yeah, let's, if you want to come down and start training, particularly those who don't swim, definitely not going to shame you. Bring your flippers along and bring your little wee wetsuit pants. And let's get down there and let's get into the pool. I'm happy to throw in a Saturday morning or Saturday afternoon as well at an ocean. And we can get a couple of coaches involved. I swam the A-boy from Takapun. There you go. That was a great swim. Swam there and then Rick would, Rick Wells would swim basically the rangatoto on back. Just meet me. At different various points, but that was a great swim. We'll get him involved as well. So, you know, do come along. I'll invite you, the bro will let us let you all know. We're voice roles in my king. Love you, man. Thank you so much. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. You know, of all the podcasts that I've ever done podcasts with you guys are the best in the country. Thank you. You know, good in the city, but in the country. Hi, my name is Caitlyn O'Reilly. I'm the youngest person to have completed the Ocean 7 Challenge. Of this really cool podcast has helped you learn something new. Maybe it's introduced you to new swimmers, made you smile. Then please take the opportunity to subscribe to Duncan and Jim's channel. I'm sure they would absolutely appreciate all your support. Cheers. Thanks, Caitlyn. Well, as always, you can give us feedback on our Instagram account at Clevdix, or send us an email ClevdixNZ at gmail.com. We'd really appreciate hearing from you. And, cheers. We'll speak to you again soon.