E42 - Mark Lenaarts - my Cook Strait story!

 After four and a half years of relentless training, countless setbacks, and a swim dream rooted in childhood memories, Mark finally conquered the mighty Cook Strait. What started off as a tribute to long summer days at the Te Awamutu Swimming Baths—run by his late father, Cor—evolved into a powerful personal journey of resilience, love, and legacy. Pushed by a deep family connection to swimming but also a desire to inspire his wife Michelle and their three young children, Mark endured 100 days across three summers waiting for the perfect conditions. When his moment came, he embraced it fully—completing the 27.6 km swim in 7 hours and 15 minutes. In this episode, we dive into the story behind the swim: the cold-water fear, the tidal heartbreaks, the support crew who stood by him, and the voice of his father echoing, “Go Mark,” as he powered across the strait. 

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Welcome to another Clevvertics podcast. In this podcast we talk to Mark Lennitz. Mark is an Auckland-based New Zealand swimmer who, like many, has done some amazing swims. He grew around a pool and then, like some, got lost a little bit through the teenage in early 20 years, but it got back into it, basically at the tepid bars. Decided to do some longer swims, so did the rottenest swim and did the first ever chopper challenge. We talked quite a lot about his cook's straight swim. There was quite a long buildup to it. It took him four years before he was able to attempt it, and it's a lot more than just a physical preparation, but also the mental and emotional side of it. This was our wonderful chat. I think you're going to absolutely love it. Okay, well, welcome to another Clevvertics podcast. In this one we're talking to Mark. Welcome Mark. Thanks very much for having me. Cool. So, Mark, we usually start by just giving you a bit of an opportunity to tell us your swim story. What is swimming to you? How did you get into it? What did you do? Yeah, I suppose going back to the start. I grew up in Teo and Motu, and my dad ran the local swimming pool. He was originally a Dutchman, a civil Dutchman. He's passed away now, but he and the Seven Tees, when I was born, actually helped out training Sally McKim, who would have been the first one to get across the Cooks straight, and she got within a mile, and then the tide changed. And she was pretty young, I think she was 17 or 18 at the time. So Mum said, who's quite a charity guy, and Mum said, Dad pretty much didn't talk for a couple of days after coming back and so devastated by the fact that she hadn't quite made it, and she trained for a whole year for it. And she was a superstar, so I'm not saying so bad. And yeah, so that planet is seed, I think, that was always a bit of a family story. So I just grew up in the local swimming pool with my older brother Grant and my younger sister Kim, and we just played in the pool all the time. Dad was a swimming teacher and ran the pool. And so we just grew up in a pool playing all the time, and I just loved swimming, and I loved racing when I was a kid, and I was pretty good up until about 10 or 11, and then the kids who were actually training came flying past me, and that was pretty much the end of my swimming career. I was like training, I was like, I just want to be in the water, I don't want to have tea, yeah. And yeah, if someone had actually told me they've been a bit of training, and how fast I could have been if I trained, you know, those little funny things, they probably would have burnt out, and you wouldn't be swimming now, right? That's highly likely, you know, it's way too much swimming in the pool as a kid, but all you're the every day growing up, it was cool. Cool. And you swim through your teens, after school you swim, you know, it's been something you've always done, or was there a gap when you stopped for a long time? So I don't swim from about 12, and I got into, I just played all sorts of sports tennis, hockey a lot. I tried for the New Zealand Junior team for them, and then I just went to teach the college to train as a PE teacher, did that, and I just got really lazy, when I knew I wasn't going to make the New Zealand hockey team, I was like, no, I'm not going to do that, so you can see the same thing. And so, yeah, I just end up getting really lazy and doing nothing, growing on like 15 kilos, so I was just a big round mark for probably 10, 15 years. And yeah, just met my wife Michelle, and she just come back from trying to get the Olympics to the sailor, and I met her and I thought, oh, she's just an amazing quality person, and she's out training all the time. You better raise your gap. I've been doing something like, so I was like, what can I do, and I'm like swimming, something I used to be all right at, maybe that's something to do, so I just went and turned up with some squads down on the tip of bars with Hayden, Woolly, and I just got stuck into it, and that was the pathway back to getting fit again. How long ago was that? That would have been about 15, 20 years ago. Yeah, yeah, 20 years. Cool. 20 years ago that you would have been, yeah, I've been swimming at the tips for that, not in his morning squat, but years. Yeah, yeah. I originally started, and that's where I mean, Vic, there was a swim squad there called the Flat Niners, that went on Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday nights. Brilliant. And Hayden ended up taking over that and got absorbed into the whole future dreams thing, but yeah. Yeah, no, it was great training for me, and I liked it because he would throw some racing in there, and I started seeing my times coming down, and that was quite sort of motivating for me, and I'd always hit this dream as a breaking a minute for a hundred meters, and the fastest idea for down was a minute four at school, and I was about 17, I'll know training, of course, but yeah, one night I broke the minute, and then I was just like, I was just in tears, I was just, it was just awesome, like I couldn't believe I did it, she'd done it. Yeah, so that was, that was cool one, yeah, good awesome Hayden, was it back in the training session? Or at a guide? So we did like a Friday night, he would do it once a month, and it would be all handicapped racing, and I was only good for one one hundred meters, and you had to do three, if you got through the next round. Okay. And I'm a one and done swim, and I need three and I'll stroke her on, absolutely useless, totally useless. So you swam sub one, and the second one was like one 30 or something. I didn't go past the second round until the final. Yeah, and I did not care. That's cool. Yeah, cool. Yeah, that's we're walking on cloud nine for the whole night. Yeah, after that, I couldn't believe it. So what got you thinking about open water swimming? Dad had done like, he swam the rangataro swims, and he used to take swimmers across the lake, roast mass swim, and I don't remember her, and he took two case swimmers, and he quite like doing the sort of two-k, I didn't water Lake Haru Petro, but he dealt with my older brother, who's a much better endurance person than me. I always thought I was a sprinter, but it turns out I'm probably not. I'm not an out and out sprinter, and I'm not out and out endurance. That's probably the best combo, right? Yeah, or you're somewhere in between, and he was more like a 400 metre runner and stuff, so maybe I'm sort of somewhere in there middling. Yep, posley, but I just didn't get that tough up, yeah. Yeah, so I just started doing some of the the smaller ocean swims, and just doing one k and two k stuff, and then I thought, oh, I wouldn't mind doing the rangataro swim, and I did that, and it was a really big ocean day, and I got smashed, and I just got destroyed and dragged myself up the beaches, and how did I do that? I don't do it again. Yeah, it kept me quite dolly that way. Yeah, yeah, so then I just keep doing a few more of those. So it sort of started from there, and I went, well, if I could do that rangataro one, and then I heard about a late top of the 10 kilometre challenge, and there was a couple of people with squads who were thinking about doing it, and I was like, holy smoke, that's crazy, and I thought that would be a really good mission. And I think through my childhood, in teenage years, and being in my twenties, I always liked the idea of doing a venture from a point to a point. Yeah. Once I went to uni, I just had three weeks with no job, and I was just like, how am I going to film my time at all uni starts again? I just worked for seven or eight weeks, though I needed a break, so I just bought a bike and wrote a cake, and got by the little tent instead off the next day, and I never done, like, I was so in first. And again, like, you went to cyclist, right? No, no, not at all. I was hopeless on a bike, and I cycled out to a way where I was just like camping on the beach to go, that was three, five K's, hold on to me the whole day together, like, how am I going to survive? But it was such an awesome mission. And the first week was just trying to fit. My second week was pretty okay, in the third week, like, I was just me enduring and stopping at every bay and having, you know, a good time. And like, the third week I was just so fit, and came back, and everyone's like, oh, you smell like what happened to you? And I'm like, I don't know, I just went for a ride. Yeah. And then I'm like, you look totally different, and I've last laid over 10 K lows, because I was just editing like, no, it all was on a full cast day, and I'd have like some usually for breakfast, at like nine o'clock in the 10th, got too hot. And that was it. But there's obviously lots of exercise at the same time, right? Yeah, it was cool. And you just made some amazing people. And maybe that's what I'm usually doing, you know, going to find my, going to bury my tent killer somewhere at Cape Rien on a bike ride. See you guys next month, I'm going to go do some weights. Well, I think, yeah, I mean, losing weight wasn't the goal, it wasn't nothing, it was, and I didn't know it was happening. I just knew I was getting stronger legs and feeling fitter. And I wasn't caring about that, but I came back, and I was like, oh, okay, like this, yes. So that would be an awesome idea. You should have done that 25 years ago. My needs are doing it again. Yeah, I don't find me, I'll do the car time spot. Yeah. So you got more and more into open water swimming then? Yeah, so we downloaded Lake Top Old, that was about the 10k, yeah, the 10k, and I was absolutely shitting myself before, and I was in tears, and I was just terrified, and it was totally awesome. It was just a great day out, and yeah, I've been training pretty hard, but you just don't know, the best story you've done is four and a half k's, and you're more than doubling it, and can you cope with that? And I kind of fell apart a little bit on the fourth lap, because I went out just at one pace, and it just fell apart a little bit on the last little bit, but that's kind of part of the journey, and I don't think I've ever swam there, swam smartly. This is the epic right? Yeah, and so four laps, two and a half k's each, and a feed, whenever you want. So yeah, I just took a couple of gels and chucked it down the back of the tobs, and off we go. So yeah, walking out of there, it was just, I think I heard about 20 lollies out of the bucket, the ladies, you know, the look on their face was a bit shocked at how many lollies I could go back at. It was cold, and I remember just getting a little middle for the age group afterwards, and there weren't that many doing over when I saw him back then, like I think I got sick, and there's no way I'd ever come sick of now. And so it was just cold, and it gave me quite a lot of confidence. Yeah, so I came back into the next year, and it was a week before I went in. So you know, the tiring was pretty insane, and we had our first child. Okay, so there was a lot going on. Yeah, and that was witty to me, of no tobs. Yeah. Have you ever swam on witty? I could be wrong on that. I'm just trying to think that too was I swam on the witty then. I was swam on the witty then. Yeah, it was definitely witty. Okay, yeah, that's pretty normal to start off in the witty, and then lose them down the line. Yeah, okay. Yeah, it took me a while to lose the witty. Okay, yeah. So a week away from the witty and sort of relatively young baby at home and training for a 10k race. Yeah, okay. Should I put on the couch a little bit? No, no. No, no, no, no. Michelle doesn't feel so formally about what we're doing now. There's been a lot of hardship on their front. So, you know, doing something, Berg is not easy on the body relationship in your family. Yeah, I think it's really interesting that conversation about the trade-offs, you know, and I haven't been very good at it, and lots of people go, well, that's awesome, you know, something at 10k, so more, you know, doing whatever, and you go, yeah, and that's what people look at, and you go, you don't know the half of that. Yeah, the other part, you don't know how stressed I was, you don't know how hard some of those days were, and how I wanted to give up, you know, 20 times. But what would have been if you didn't do it though? You know, would you be, you'd be worse off as a person, right? Yes, so yeah. Yeah, and that's, so, things being incredibly helpful for me, to bring a little bit more balance, because I can get a little bit too singular and focus sometimes on things, and I can do with swimming as well, or I just feel really out of balance, so you've got your relationship, you've got your family, you've got your work, and you've got some other things going on in your life, hopefully, and then you've got this, and I find if I do some exercise, then I'm just a better person, I'm more positive, I've got much better energy, and I can cope with a lot, like it really calms me down, when I'm not, I've got, I've just got energy in me, and I've just get frustrated or stuff just sets me off a little bit more, and it just takes those little bit of ages off that can just back up sometimes. Yeah, yeah, so it can be so tricky trying to get that balance between, you know, as you said, exercise makes you better, but if you spend too much time exercising in the relationship or the work, or something else is going to do, so, you know, Swings and Runabouts can be challenging, right? Completely challenging. It's not quite an idea. Yeah. Do you want to share your wife's self-in-member with me? Yes. And I think what will do is we'll get Jono's wife on here as well, we definitely won't get my wife on here, because that's not going to work out well for me, I think for the podcast. Yeah, and we're awesome for the airside of the story, right? And I think it's really exciting. You make it sound like you got all your shit, all the ducks are in a row. No, so far from her, and Sarah's different with Jono, you know, and each relationship is different, and each people have different perspectives, but you've also got really different things going on at home. Yes. And, you know, yeah, we had one child, and then no two, and then no three, and I'm keeping going and wanting to sort of step things up and keep going on on features, and when they're super young, that's intense. But when they're older, they can come with you. Yeah. They can do. Holder, they're not. 13, 10, and 8, and they've each found completely different things to what we've been until. Yep. So Toby does ride cycling. Yes, some on. I think it's inspired by your ride to Capri. It's a much better ride. You can actually ride. Yeah, I'm very yeah, double useless or a bike. And yeah, someone does dance, musical theatre, and and Lockie. He's just he's under soccer. He actually quite likes the water. Cool. And so it's just like they're into the air thing, just get in behind it. Whatever spins their wheels, actually. Yeah. And just yeah, we just want to get in behind that. If they feel confident and got out the bed, they're totally awesome. They got mates outside the house, they're in the sunshine, yep, 100%. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Okay. So, 10, a couple of 10 keys under there, go surely that you you're done and dust it last time, time to spend time with the family, right? So there's a bit of family stuff going on, just trying to keep the lights on with work. Jillian and my swam squad at Glenn Inners at YMCA, went across the 220k swim over at Rotten East Island, so Perth out to Rotten East. Yeah. And she went and did that, and I was like, well, and she came back in three months later, was like, I think you might go and do it again. It was amazing. And I was like, just sat on that and had a bit of a chat with Michelle and signed up for that. So that was that was a pretty again terrifying swim. And epic adventure like, let's go on a plane trip then Michelle, and the two older ones stayed at home, and Michelle was four months pregnant at the time, she came out on the boat. But Jillian and I swam together, and we had another couple of swimmers over from New Zealand as well. And yeah, it was a really cool experience. It wasn't an easy swim. So you're going to have a proper boat as well as a kayaker with you on that swam line? Yeah. So, you know, you're staying on the beach, and it sucks in the morning, and they sit you off and waves of 100 swimmers. There are 300 solo swimmers, and then there's about 1,500 people doing on teams. And it's on news every night for the entire week because it's sponsored by the news network. And it's massive. So ocean swimming all over the media and Perth, it's hilarious from like, oh, there's about 10 people doing this. And you're like, no, it really does like 10k, 20k swimmers, really? Yes. And it's like, this is bonkers. And so you turn up, and you see like 500 boats, one kilometre out. And you've got to swim out, find your kayak. And then that kayak takes you to the boat, which is 2k, actually. And then you swim for the next 18k's with a boat beside you. So there's like a balloon on the kayak, or the swimmer's got a balloon on, or a pink cap. I'm the only one with a pink cap. Yeah. So you kind of, there's 50 of you with pink caps. Yeah. So, yeah, our crowd just had a yacht. And so they said we're going to be at the far left. We're not like a launch. So we have less capability and movement. Some of these are the ones and we're less confident. So we're going to peel out the left. So that was pretty easy to get to. And we don't have any issues. So that was cold. But yeah, I go out in first 10k's. We were just going a little bit slow. We're trying to break six hours. We don't do it. We don't have six and a half. But I remember just breaking it at about 16, 14k's or something. Julia was just flying. And I was like, what is she doing? She's sprinting. And every feed stop I'd have, I'd have a loo stop. And then she just took them off. And I try and catch her up. And it was getting harder and harder. So for 2k's, it was actually probably 4k's. I just had some massive struggle. And she was just smoking me. And then in the last 2k's, I just got this ray of sunshine coming through. And I was just like, the finish line's coming. I can see the lighthouse. I'm getting closer. The pub's open and pumping the music's going. There's heat of people and boats as epic. And I was just on like, yeah, just on a high. It was amazing. And his chest boats even really choppers. I had a chopper fly over board. And I was like, oh, Julia, this is so cool. She's like, what do you think, the freaking chopper time? So I'm going to sharpen it. I'll free me into it and stuff. It was a weird experience. It's just like, oh, God. And people have been eating on the beach. I was like, you know, three or four people. And it's the start by any series. But it was cool. But they've never had any issues in the race itself, right? No, they've had a couple. They caught off the race entirely once with a shark. And they pulled out a whole group of summers when they had another shark. And some people got through and got there and the slow ones down the back were okay. And the ones in the middle were all got pulled out. So yeah, they've had a couple. But it's so well run, massive briefings. It's all recorded. Like, it's so slick. And you go, well, this is what it could be. Yeah. You know, what could it be here in New Zealand? It could be as big or bigger. Yes, yeah. But beautiful swim. And you're basically swimming out. It feels like a reef or something. You can see the bottom for about three quarters of this one. Yeah. And it's clear as anything. Ten metres deep. You've got this beautiful like sea swat, the sea we're just swishing on the bottom. And you're just like, are you kidding me? Oh, that is so glowy. It was just beautiful. And it's cold over there. It's like 2021. Like I was thinking, per se, our 40 degrees. It's going to be roasting there. Oh, no, it's the same as here. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. But that's quick swimming, right? So the long stuff that you've done up until this stage, you're still racing it if it's a few yards. Trying to figure out how to raise it. Yeah. Like trying to figure out what kind of a pace can we go. Yeah. And generally, and I were really similar pace at different swims. And we would just be just to improve, to improve. And it's really nice having a partner like that. Like, it just helped with the emotional load. Like, I would always just lock and spot her. And just knew that she was there. And it was just like, oh, really can't be. Yeah. I hate swimming by myself for training. I'm terrified of sharks. Just absolutely terrified of sharks. Don't like going out. Sharks don't like bankers from what I'm just saying. Yeah. So there's many things that don't like yeah. So that was, yeah. So that was really cool to have that experience. And then came back and the first day I got back at work. I was just like, man, I'm going back to work. That's shit. I don't want to be here. So we goes, oh, there's a dude on like the third floor is like organizing a swim from Y Hickey Island into the sleep. I'm like, Jesus, who's that? So, you know, got on, got on touch. And I was staying up the first Y Hickey swim. And so that was a month later. And it just gave me something. I would have got to go on into a mess of Dana because you don't have to bring a swim. Yeah, you do. We need to figure that psychology out. Because it's definitely like somebody called it the Breonna. She was like, yeah, it's like it's like a post-traumatic PTSD valve after a big swim. Which is interesting because I mean, it shouldn't be. No, but the same thing happens. He's talked to the guys who've done the comrades, you know, the big runs and things. Yeah. Three, it's just a common thing. I think you just got to know that it's likely to happen and have a bit of a strategy to how to deal with it. I think it's really interesting. John, I helped me with that because he said just expect a down, expect a really big down. Yeah. And it was really good advice to actually have to know that that's a likely thing that it's normal. Yeah. If you're normalised, then it's easier to deal with. Yeah, and lots of people were just like, wow, you know, and you should be in celebration mode. And it's interesting. I think you should celebrate these things because it's really good for you. It's really good on so many levels. And you can put it to work in many areas in your life. But to celebrate it, you don't need to be key. You humble all the time and just be really low-key. Yeah, I think. You know, it's actually used that was totally awesome. It was a great day. I learnt so much. I'm an agent. Yeah. Yeah, like, no. And you do kind of want it. I have really mixed feelings about it because part of me is like, wants to run down the line and do high-fives with everybody. And it's like, it's totally joyous. And there's a lot of people that are really behind you and that and just actually, and just celebrate with you. Yes. And that's awesome. And you know, there might be some other people out there that don't feel that and that's kind of cool. But you don't want to be a duck about it. But you know, you want to be okay with it. I was talking to Brian and he ended up chatting to this guy with his wife and everything and this guy was talking to me and he says, oh, you know, you're a swimmer. You know, there was a guy who was swimmer on Wahiki Island and Brian's. Yeah. And then his wife came along and said, did you know that that was Brian? Oh, is that Brian? Yeah. Absolutely celebration. Yeah, he was trying to sort of play. Yeah. That's me. I'm not percents, right? Yeah. Okay, so I came back from the 20k and then got involved with Wahiki to send ideas. Yeah, further on actually into mechanics. But he rightly, the rescue helicopter finished. Yes. Well, it's not there now, but like right at that base. Yeah. That was amazing coming. Like there was only eight of us doing it that day. Yeah. felt like a never been done before adventure. And those are the best adventures I reckon. You know, it's like you're breaking ground. I definitely wasn't breaking ground because me and Jillian were down the back in the space and throughout the front. So that's all good. But we had really good weather. The wind was behind us perfectly and the currents were good. And we came in in like five and a half hours. And we were the last two in. And they sent out the rescue helicopter 200 meters from the finish at the break order. Yeah. And they dropped one of the guys on the chopper, you know, doing the whole rescue. Yeah. Rescue hands crossed on the chest into the water. And I was in this thing's right over the time of you spraying like everything you were doing. And I was just like, holy smoke, it just doesn't get any better. Jillian's like, can we just hurry up into the finish? And I was like, it was so funny because yeah, but like sometimes I get a bit of a high and choose having a really tough day. And you know, we've been through this massive boil up of fish and our kayaker have just peeled out the front and taken off. Yes. And we swam through like thousands, thousands of foods just gives me the hibiscus. I did that with you once. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't enjoy that. I felt like it was like a kilometer wide. And it wasn't. But it was really like 200 meters wide. But they were just everywhere. And we got out the other side and just looked at the stage kayaking with us. And so when we did it, same story. Just freaking birds everywhere. And these guys decided straight through the muddle. Yeah. And I was like, no, that's fine. I don't know what's going on anything. Yeah. And I did a massive detour. And I literally swam around this whole thing and caught them back up again. I wasn't too keen to go through that day. That was probably a wise approach. I was just thinking, man, these are wild animals. They're used to living out there. I'm sure they can miss somebody as big as me. Yeah. I do not look like a fish. So I just thought, luckily, I don't have a big sort of imagination. I can just sort of turn off the brain and just go. No, I can't. Yeah, because I can't be used. Very no, I can't. I did it as part of a tame from the bank. And there were three of us, doing a little four of us. And so I was in the water. And coming up to the end of my half-hour swim slot in the kayak, it came over to me. And I was like, I do, I need to get out and go to the boat. And he's like, no, there's a whale lead. And I was like, what? So I looked straight ahead. And probably 200 metres further up is in the water, just coming out of the water and over. And I just like, wow, that was unbelievable. And I wasn't scared at all. Like, and I don't know anything about all this. I've never come across one in my life. So you call give me, okay, not to kill a whale. Yes. Yeah. So we had actually a lake. And then someone really showed us that they've never actually killed a human. Yeah. In the wild. Yes. And so I was just seeing an oar of this oarca, just peeling out the water. And the kayak was like, get over to the boat now. So I was like, oh, Roger that, okay, look serious. So swim over, hopped up on the treadsome. And the oarca came under the boat and popped up and had a little bay with it. And had a big stingray, kept out the mouth. And it was a metre from it. And I'd only just got up like five seconds before. Just coming to sound. Wow. And I was just like, and then the whole boat's lucky at me. You think I'm absolutely cacking myself. Yes. And I'm like, so I'll just get back in there. And they're like, are you sure? Are you sure? And I'm like, well, yeah, it's okay. And they're ready, ready to own to all the other suns and all that. But like what I highlight, like amazing to see. That would be so cool. Yeah. So absolutely brilliant. Yeah. So I went swimming a couple of weeks ago. Cam was back in the morning with with my little swimming buddy, Shazil. And we went out and back. And we sort of came out of the water at about seven o'clock in the morning. And he's always going to his mum waiting for him. Yeah. Special needs little guy. So it's always, you know, always shows his muscles. And he's like, yeah. And I'm always focused on him, you know. And I noticed a little bit of activity, you know, sort of also, a hundred, two hundred meters just towards my angle, better from where we were. And I said to, should me raise my muscle. I was going on there, you know, you guys, I don't know, it's just not just from a standing there, just talking nonsense. They'd been talking nonsense there for about 15 minutes. So I got home, shower, dropped kids at school went to work. And as I was driving, the guys were starting to message this video clip of a couple of the beta bass winners that had come across this part of Orca. And they were literally playing in the beach in the waves within Orca. And I just, we just swearing right past and didn't even know they were there, you know. And you sort of stop and you think, well, what happens if they came to, you know, Shazil and myself as opposed to those guys? What would I have done? Because I've come across a dolphin once. And I shut myself because I think came up and was a fin and I was like, oh, my God. And also, you know, in my head, it felt like it was like half an hour, but it was probably 20 seconds. And as soon as it sort of beached the water, you know, I was like, okay, I'm all good, right? But I don't know what I would do if an Orca popped up next to me. I'd like to think I'd be, you know, give it a pattern, you know, or good, but I think I would scream and walk on water and have to change my tongue. The guidance, like, don't go with 200 meters or something. They say, yeah, just do well. And I know that's probably going to be a guidance. Okay. Yeah. Well, my thinking on that one is, I don't mind staying 200 meters away, is whether they want to do the same rules. Yeah, because, you know, if they want to swim close to you, you got no chance because they just move so much faster and smoother. Yeah, I kind of stand back and just try and do the respect thing with the dolphins and just see if they want to interact, you know, like, yeah, I just want to run, I've run down the beach, like, when they're at the beach, I'm going to run down the beach to get in the water and I've done it in the middle of winter and, you know, Michelle and I have done it down the bottom of the South London. Yeah. Just with dolphins. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, and the Cat Lunds just saw them and just ran 400 meters down the beach and it was freezing and we were screaming and getting in the water. This is a pretty winter song. Yes. And, you know, it was just, it was exhilarating and terrifying at the same time. Did you make it to the pot? Yeah. We got the air in and you were three or four just diving through your waves and it was just, it was unbelievable. It's just cool. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was super cool. Yeah. So, so in the ideal world, we'll be able to quit our jobs at the bank and wherever we are and just do these adventures all day long, right? Yeah. That sounds pretty good. But maybe the adventure is actually worth it because it's an easy everyday life and occasionally you get this little gym there comes along and it makes it stand out a little bit more. That's why I swim through winter because it makes me appreciate some of them all. I got to do that swimming in the water. I got to approach. Go through a lot of hardship to get the reward. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Getting in the water is, I'm such a wusset. I'm totally useless at it. So, I haven't done any winter swimming at all. Yeah. When I go down on the Corridor I would go down there at Christmas time and I pretty much wouldn't get in until January or sometimes February because I'm like, this is too cold. Yeah. I never like swimming in cold water. At all. I always like the warm water and we tend that I confess to Michelle last summer. We were at the beach and I said, I don't like swimming in the ocean. I don't actually like swimming. I'm scared. I'm sorry I'm the sea. I had it from my childhood going out to Redland and Carfair and I was terrified of rips and being taken out under the ocean and I just didn't have the skills to handle being in the waves. And she just was looking at me like, what? Yeah. After all these things we've done. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, I don't actually fundamentally like it and I'm scared. But a healthy way to stay just good right? Yeah. I think it's wise and I've gone into a bit of grief on a couple of trading swims. Bow us up by myself and out with Johnnie a couple of times in Caitlin and there's a couple of moments there where you just go, that's just going pretty close the edge of what I can do or should do. Yeah, I can tell you a couple of swims that I've been on for a few more. Yeah, give us an example. Because it's important to do these things in a safe and violent way. Clevverdex is New Zealand's largest swim focused podcast and our team at Swimscapes is proud to be their official partner with all things swimming. Swimscapes offers both piloting and safety for solar marathon swims as well as various packages including marathon relay swims, swimcams and swim adventure holidays. Swimscapes is also a facilitator of the Auckland Triple Crown coming soon, proudly brought to you by Swimscapes. Yeah, I started winter swimming just because I decided after doing those 20k swims that I should try and swim in the Cooks straight and it'd been sitting in the back of my life. Which is cold. And it's cold. 14 degrees is what you're probably looking at up to 16 if you're lucky. All that's just Auckland in winter. So you're going to have to do it. So I signed up for that rush in May or June and I just decided that we could night the start. Just like with the cold water. Yeah, so I came to Takapona and hopped on and I was just screaming like a baby and I was just I hated it and I still hate it. I still hate going on but yeah, that first 100 meters, 200 meters of just like you're just screaming underwater because it's just so painful, so sore, so counterinsured of messing with your brain. And then after 400 meters you start to burn for that first kilometre and all that bloods rushing into your core. That's the cool part of it. And that's quite a good feeling. And then the rest of it's kind of okay to a point and then sometimes it can get really uncomfortable. If you go number two five. Yeah, yeah. And there've been definitely something like that. So I really struggled with the cold water. And that first winter, I don't think I adapted very much at all. We did one three, like 10k one, three four hours one. And I just came out and asked purple and like these photos of me coming out on the beach and after shaking the whole way walking up and just you know, pretty hypothermia and definitely purple. And it took me, it would take me an hour to film my left foot and it would take me two hours to film my right foot. And I'd be shaking like us with cups of coffee for at least an hour. It was always a bit of a joke, you know, you guys sitting at a cafe and stuff sometimes and you know, just sitting up there with a beta bay crew and just, you know, I'd be the one doing this and they're all just looking at me and I'm trying to get it in my cup of coffee. You've got to have a lid on. I really need some warmth for some caffeine and some energy. That's really done hard. Yeah. So some of those hard ones were that first winter training. It's just maybe too much to soon type thing. You definitely have to apply my tires and learn how to do it, I think. Yeah, I agree. And I think for me, the second winter was better. And the third winter was really okay, you know, and that's just a body adaptation. But I think it was also a mental adaptation. Yeah, because I think all the cold water kills off the brain cells and it becomes, you know, easier because you're stupider. Yeah, I couldn't call some of them. Yeah, so some of those trainings, so I'm sorry to look back. Free reign sometimes. The, yeah, John, he was awesome because he would just touch base every week and it'd be like, right, and we would go out for Sunday swim. So I'll do a Saturday swim out from Takapura and there'll be seven or eight, ten people there. And we'd do three Ks or five Ks, but we would often go off a couple of us and do longer swims and do two teens and stuff. Yeah, Sunday was a 10k kind of a day and we would do that a lot in two teens and 12s and 15s and things. So yeah, one day, and John, after he did Cook's straight, was really inspiring, you know, and he turned up, which was two hours of his swim was massive, say, his two-meter seas. And then it sort of fled and out over the day, but he said he'd never seen anything like it. So, you know, he would just say, come on, let's go out and I didn't like going out. I get really seasick on boats. I'll throw out at least 50% of the time on a boat. So my motion sickness is not great. And so we just went out the back of my ringy bay, you know, two and up in the carpark. That's two-meter seas. He's like, we're doing a 10k swim today and I'm like, I just want to go home. Yeah. Like there's no way. And there was a lady in the carpark that saw us get out and the wind was howling. And it's like, we're just going, you know, there's just no years or no with John. That's an amazing way to be. He's incredibly resilient much, much, you know, much mentally harder than I am. And so I'd just turn around and go to the coffee shop and go how him I thought it was me. But because you're going with one of your batteries, you're signing up and it's a contract and you're a doer. So the lady saw us from out the back of the breakers and people left and just we just disappeared after several days. And we came back. We only swim for a while and came back and had done about an hour and I threw up out of the back. And see, John, I think I'm just going to actually come in, like, fill your boats if you want to carry on. So he came in with me and we were coming into the beach and there were three police guards. And I'd seen the chopper out in the heaps of the ocean swimmers for some reason were on some radio, police radio and it, who, what was going on. So the swimming community knew that I were in the middle of the story. And so I've got this photo of John O. Be having a chat with the coffers. And we just got really like walking out the beach. I'm like, oh shit, okay. I kind of have an inkling of what may have happened. Yes. And why are they even here? Like, we are really going to, like, this is just brilliant about it. Like, we've got to do training. This is what we do. And I'm like, dude, I think actually it's a slightly different situation. We need to do a mere culprits with the police here and get out of this way. So I was just like, look, this is the situation. We're really sorry. She didn't know what we're up to, but this is what we do and what we're training for. Yeah, good, good on here, right? For, for racing the, oh, she, the ship. She was concerned. Yeah. So just so funny and we offered to show them a coffee around the corner and stuff. Just, you know, just have tow flights with you. Yes. Yes. Yeah. We swam with tow flights every single time. Oh, I was a surf life saving duty officer at that time, but I wasn't on duty that day. And I saw some of these messages coming through. So I phoned up and I said, guys, you got to close this down. Those guys are okay. Yeah. I saw John at this morning. Yeah. It's fine. Yeah. Because it's down. We got so many messages after that. And I was like, where did this come from? Like, who's, who's like, oh, I'm this? Yeah. So that was kind of funny. Another time just did a 10k swam with Caitlin and John, and swam five cases down one way, got to the end, turned around. And I just wasn't feeling very good. We've gone down really fast and I turned around and I just mentally opted out. And I just swam, you know, lots of, lots of stops. And with about, okay, now to go, I just got out and walked along the sea wall the entire way that's my own beach. It was like a walk of shame. Yes. And we've all been there the whole time. I'm glad you've been here. Yeah. Okay. It's just a clever one. We did there. You're good. Thanks for emotional support. Yeah. So I just felt like shit. And I was just walking there just going there's no way I'm going to swim that cook straight. I'm not good enough. I'm shit. I keep mentally honest. This is how long before the cook straight now? That's probably like three months before. Can't say that. Yeah. So I got to the end and I'm like, guys, see ya. And I drive home and I was just mentally beating myself up and I got home and walked in the door and saw the shell and just went, this is what's happened. That was terrible. But you know, this is where my head's at. And she said, bad day, you go into the pool tomorrow. And that was it. It was like, it was the most simple and beautiful advice. She knew that was just a terrible day. Yeah. Just ride it off. Yeah. Just park it. And you've got to go something tomorrow. You got it. You got it. Just turn up. Yeah. And I was just like, okay, and I did. And it worked. And that's because, like, she was in New Zealand. So I had heat to see bags and understood sport and understood kind of what's going on. And some days you have terrible days. Yeah. Does she ever get concerned, like, hey, you know, you know, you know, father, you've got three young kids like, why you doing this stupid stuff? Yeah. I think there is some of that. And I think it's probably more from a perspective of, there's an expectation of, you know, we have a partnership and we both want to be really good parents and really intentional and be there for our kids. And this stuff isn't helping that. You know, I think it was more around the time I was taking. But also when I was doing really long training, so I come home and I staffed and often I'd need to have a sleep. And I'd have a sleep three quarters an hour. Normally they go up to the cabin out of the bag. And I'll go for a sleep for an hour. And then I'd be, I'd be sweet. Yeah. But I wasn't totally sweet. Yeah. I was just running like 70%. Yeah. And it's just not really good energy when you've got mega high energy children running around. Yeah. And Michelle's trying to like to 100 things. So she held the thought unbelievably well. And the load that she was taking was just the continuation of that load. Got exhausting. Sure. And, you know, and I wasn't coming to the party of being a really good partner with holding up my chair of the bag. So I think if you want to do something like this, you've got to be thinking about how are you going to tune up in the other part. And I don't think I did a great job of that. So I'd tell I was a pretty least in the bridge husband and father through those pockets of especially the six months of the summers. And Brian, Brian had a bit of a theory where he'd go one big year, one every due top story to balance family and personal life. And, you know, that's up story. Yeah. And Mark. Yeah. Yeah. He's kind of got a, he has done that. It's working a little different key for him at the moment, but he's still being quite focused on making sure that the family balance kind of fits in because he's got a big goal in mind. And he's working hard at the moment, but he's very conscious of everything else that's going around. And I think it changes as we as we get older as the family gets older as, yeah, things are just different and you've got to take it here by year, I think. Yes. What would have worked three years ago? It doesn't necessarily work this year. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. There's a good adaptable approach, you know. What is a sort of a pre-cooked straight training load look like for you? So being five or six days a week, I'd swim squads three days a week. And that was really good for speed because I wanted to just keep speed there because what I was doing and it was really interesting to talk into my son coach, like Mark Boin and then, you know, obviously, super experienced guy and loads of stuff. And he'd be like, oh, what do you do when you're swimming out the ocean? I'm like, I swim from here to there and sometimes back again. And he's like, well, what do you do? I'm like, I swim at one pace and he's like, what are you doing? Like, you should be doing sex, you should be doing speed, you should be doing some fat leg stuff. You know, you do a big long boom, but then go and do a sprint, you know, and I was like, what? And so I always looked at the ocean as being where you do the long stuff. And the pulse where you do the speed stuff. And I've never actually done speed stuff in the ocean. Power from the 3k burn with exels crew in the oil and those guys. And it's like, holy smoke man, you're going to swim 3k super quick with these guys. And you're racing really hard. Yeah. Yeah, you're going to be all right. Yeah. So so fast ones. Yeah, three, three pull swims in two ocean swims. Yes. And sometimes a third. So I changed jobs from the bank. So I would say I signed up to Cox straight to try and give me some confidence in myself. So I actually think I was fundamentally going towards a pretty decent depression. The last two years of the bank, I was pretty terrible. I was tuning up and doing work, but I wasn't really actively engaged. And I was feeling pretty shit about who I was because of how I was being treated and the culture not being open to the direction of what I thought was right. And I kind of got to the point of just, yeah, I found a really hard. So I ended up leaving. I resigned with no job to go to. And I couldn't even apply for jobs. That's how I was not in a good place. And I was turning up, but not really functioning kind of state for a long time. And so I actually resigned. And the day I resigned, all that load came off. And I got to a really happy place really quickly. And I wouldn't have a job interview. I said, this is what I'm awesome at. This is what I'm useless at. Don't make me do that. If you do this, it'll be awesome for you, and awesome for me, and it will be good. And I only want to wait four days a week. And they were like, and I got out that interview and rang Michelle and said, this is how I played it. She's like, what? I just, I just laid it out totally honestly. And I was who I was. And kind of not to take it a little bit, but actually he's what will work. Because it was so terrible my previous experience. And I was so broken and so functioning. I knew I had to switch it to keep the good back again. And so I got offered one of five roles. So the phase you're back, which ones do you want? And that's okay for me. So I swim on Fridays. And I swim up to 10Ks on the pool. Sometimes I go to the ocean, but I do a long session on the pool. And it would generally be 18Ks or something. And then Saturday would be on the ocean. And that might be a five or a seven. And then Sunday would be a long one. And it would generally be with Caitlin and Ivan and John Aoyon, whoever would be up for that. And Susan would turn up and will they do some of those adventures and becs and stuff. So you know, so sometimes we'll be in a venture somewhere. Sometimes there would be full steam. Yes. Sometimes it would be medium pace and I'm sure people and this is cool. Good people. Yeah. A lot of training, right? Okay. Yeah. So tell us about cook straight. So cook straight. I signed up in June thinking it will be in a year and a half. I kind of hoped it would be in six months, but it wasn't. So Phil was pretty straight. That's not going to get you. Yeah. So trained thinking 18 months. I was supposed to be in January and I flew down and I was ready to go and I've been training really hard and it got called off at nine o'clock that night because the wind changed. Yeah. And my crop running come down. Phil was there. Hostane and Phil's were ready to go. We didn't had a burger and Phil gave me a call. Said the winds picked up. The full gas changed. It's not going to happen. So OEMP is placed in a massive bag. It's not going to get chips and we're just in TV and we need to be and flew back the next day. Yeah. Then I was on notice for the next four months. Yeah. Every two weeks is the back ups on it. Yeah. So I had to keep training. Yeah. And it just was. So it's a grand day. Yes. So hard. So you know there's six, eight tied slots and you know your heart rate, knowing you're on notice for a one week period or a five day period. And you could get the phone call at two o'clock and fly down at six o'clock or seven o'clock in this one the next day. Yeah. And you do that right the whole summer and the label. Yeah. So into the summer I was getting really hacked off because I was just like I was seeing this chance disappearing. Yes. And I was like Phil you know can I do it? You know can we do it with other boats? Can we what can we do? My options. Yeah. And you know they didn't go down too well probably. Sure. Because you know. Because it's running. Yeah. He's running a business once actually the whole team. So that was a that caused the fracture in our relationship I suppose. He'll forgive you easily man. He's a guy. No he understood I think. Yeah. He's probably hacked off at the time but I think. Yeah. Yeah. Like it all worked out okay in the end but then the second summer. Yeah. My sort of slot was February because February's much more much better than January. Yeah. And it just didn't happen that whole week. So it stretched out the whole summer until May. So this is the second summer and I flew down in April and I went down for a two hour swim and I came out and met him for a coffee and I was shaking like a leaf. Yeah. And he's like two hours. Yeah. He's like what you'll call. Yeah. But yeah. You know we're looking at a slot that's the first week in May. Cold. Yeah. It's cold. Yeah. Are you up for that? And it was on my sister's birthday. Yeah. And we're having a family reunion in Brisbane with my sister for four days. She's giving up a lot. Yeah. And it was all lined up all booked and nothing can change and my brother was out for three days. But you've been training for two years now for this day. Yeah. So I'm like do I do this swim or do I not? And I was like I don't think I should do this one. Because I didn't think it would be good. And so on the day I'm over and flying to Australia on that day or in Australia and Phil seems to be a picture of the other guy swimming and it's 16 degrees and it's the sun and the ocean's flat. And I'm like yeah. And he's just like so sorry. Yeah. Yeah. And look he got with an 800 metres of the finish and I didn't hit him because there was no time. It was dangerous and the seat's packed up. And it was pretty close. Yeah. So I don't know if I would I don't think I would have made it across. I don't think I was really because I think my training hit I I've gone to Coramina for six weeks during COVID to stay away from people getting sick. And I wasn't training enough while I was down there. Because I was doing the biggest project of my life at work. And I was working until like midnight every night for weeks. And I was doing like four and five case swans but I should have been doing 10 case swans. Yeah. I didn't want 10 case swans in there. Yeah. So I don't think I was fundamentally ready. And I think Phil was throwing that sort of back. Okay. You're cool dude. But I can see he just pretty easy done. So this was 2021. Yeah. Yeah. So no gap in 2020 2021 you passed on it. And the training continues. Yeah. Okay. And I was so broken. And Michelle was so broken. And it was like really. And so training was pretty light touch. Through that. Through that. So you were only a bit of like shopping golf clubs and stuff like that potentially or no no yet. No. Okay. Cool. I was still focused on that. But I was broken. Like I just sat there for two months. Like just you know I just had to pick myself up again. And I found that I can flick a switch. But sometimes it takes a really really really long time to flick that switch. Yeah. And so I stopped swimming every time we hit our children. I'd stop stop for a year. And the first time it was a month to get back. And the second time it was two months. And the last time it was about four months to get back to. Okay. I can handle swans. I'm and I'm committed. That's all good. I'm growing out. Yeah. So it took a while to get back. Yeah. Winter was really hard just to keep tuning up. And Caitlin was super helpful. John I was getting faster and faster. And I asked for a really hard going out with him. And we never really. I talked to him a little bit about it. But probably not as long as I could have done. So I could stay with him for the first half of the storm and then he'd smoke me on the second half. And I'll just say do just go like just go and do your own storm. Like he needed to train for what he was doing. But he'd gone from a three and a half K&R swimmer the next year three and three quarters and the next year four. And then a four and a quarter. You know, he was just getting better and better. And I was approaching, you know, 50. And I was just like three and three quarters. That's kind of my game. Three and a half I'll be pretty. You know, that's kind of where I'm sitting. I'd love to sit at four. And I probably couldn't if I went totally all in. But he was so scientific and so distracted and so organised and they'd be doing everything. And I would, I'm just not like that. I'm just like, I'll do 80% I'm not going to think about my nutrition. I just know ice cream every night. Yes. I'd eat chips, I'd eat pastries, I'd have coffees. You might have a swimmer. Yeah. So I like to enjoy it. And yeah, so my diet was not good. It's not an athlete's diet. I don't even prefer to be there. So when did you get to cook? So it feels like should we do it earlier? Sure we do it pretty Christmas. That'll give you the best chance. And I was like, yep, because I got to my head. I was so desperate to get it down. I would do anything. Yep, fine. So december's in my head. He rangs me up on the like the 20th of November. How you placed? How you going? You ready? We're going to do it next week. I'm like, what? It was like the 15th of November. It was crazy. Like my birthday was on the 19th of November. And I'm like, I just said yes to him. And that was the right answer to get it. It was just like, well, I'm going to take my chance. Yeah. I don't know when I'm going to get this. This has been such a debarkable way to go. So we went down on, I think the 25th of summer. I think it would have been the second-earthest ever to go straight to him. Daned all the earliest. And we went down, you know, stayed at my cousins. And they were amazing. Looked after us. Got up at 5am. 5.30 Phil calls. Now the wind's up too high. It's not on. But it's definitely on for tomorrow. And so the next morning, my car, same deal. My brother had flown out from France and landed in Australia the night two nights before. And I rang him up and said, I reckon I might be doing a quick straight. So he flew over straight away from Melbourne. I arrived after midnight, came and stayed. Saw that first morning get called off. Saw the second morning. The same thing happened. And it got called off at 5.30 and we hit a flight booked for 6.15 or something. And so we just grabbed our bags and ran out the door and got to the airport. And they wouldn't let us take our luggage. So I left that with my brother and we got on the plane and got back to our kids. And took them on the school run. So again. And just destroyed. Like just unbelievable. So pissed off. So angry and annoyed. And then yeah, 15th of December. We fly 14th at the 7th flight out. We're doing it again. Okay. We need to see how this goes. I'm not having a lot of trust at this stage. I just thought the serious thing is that if we're going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. And she's in the airport company. Something like that. Yeah, there was a lot of money being dropped. There's a lot of emotional even being destroyed and burned up and flayed. Yeah. Plenty of streets I can tell you. Like I wasn't functioning very well. I was so focused on that one thing. I couldn't organise any new logistics. I was just doing the fundamental basics of my life. And Michelle was like running around doing a hundred things. That was amazing. So yeah. Got out the next morning. I drove up to Mana and hopped on the boat. Met the American guy that was swimming as well. And he'd already done a few swims in the ocean. Seven. And he was really quick. And we went out and it was flat as a pancake. And it was really misty. And just really cool. And I get really seasick. And I had gone to a heart specialist and got all sorts of heart things. I'd gone to the doctor to get all sorts of anti nausea medicine. And I'd gone and checked. What can I take? It's not going to make me sleepy or give me a heart attack during the swim. Because in the second year one of the swimmers died. Yes. At the finish. Yes. So and that was I watched that funeral online. And I was supposed to be saying that that's the backup swimmer to him. Yeah. So that was a really hard thing to process for 48 hours. But Michelle said you can't give up now. And it kind of needed that level of permission. She needed to be okay with it. Yeah. Yeah. So he was on my mind a lot for the swim because I was like I want to get to the finish. I want to get home to our three awesome kids. Yeah. So that was playing on it. There's a lot of stuff going on with my sister over in Australia. She was going through a really tough time. And going through a lot of like yeah just really, really bad stuff. And my brother who had come out to be there for the swim and he knew that the man in the swimmer was about dead young childhood going after maybe a bit of a rebuild for me. He might have since then. He went to be with her. We had lots of chats about that. And that was the priority. Yeah. And that was the right thing today. And it's hard because you know I'd like to have had them there on the boat. And he was really cool about it. He's like just you know I'll be there on the road. Yeah. And if you'll be there on the next one. Yeah. Because there'll be some more stupid shit you're going to do. I'm assuming. Oh, who knows. Yeah. Just don't tell him. You have to be calm and play it. Let's be calm and play it. You can't get me in trouble. You can either do it or not. So the swim I got there I was we just pulled up. I was a bit disorganised. I didn't know that we were going to be there right then. I feel like you need like you know it's 15 minutes. And I'm like I need to go for a toilet stop too. And you don't go on the boat and I was crying. I was just terrified. I just couldn't function. And hopped on the water. And it was like fast for essence and silver and gold and blue and all sorts of stuff as I was swimming. You started in that dock obviously. Yeah. No the light was up a little bit. Yeah. Because it takes an hour and a half to get to the start. So it was live. Yeah. It was dark on the marina and then light on the way. Yeah. And so it is. There's a photo of me sitting in the IRB. And I just looked terrified. Yeah. Which was totally how it was. And just tears my eyes and said things to both filming us then. And with what he was going to play out. Hopped on the water. He didn't tell my goggles on since I had them on for the swim squads. Not for the ocean. You know. Yeah. So they're like floppy and useless to start believing. And I couldn't fix them. And Phil's just looking at me like, what's this numbing? So this happened about three times in the first 15 minutes. We swapped goggles. He threw the goggles at me and they didn't land in my hand. And they started sinking under the water. And I managed to catch about two feet under the water. It was a miracle and got those on. And he put them on so tight that, you know, basically the goggles are at the back of my head. There are contact lenses there. Yeah. So anyway. So for the first three hours of the swim, I was really mentally struggling because I was just thinking about my sister and what she was going through. Yeah. It was not resolved. There was a lot of stuff going on. Yeah. And we just hadn't got on all squid away in the control for her. So I was a real piece. And you were there, you know, you should have been with your sister technically. Is your mind is that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You dragged in many different ways. But I think that was just playing. And it was just I couldn't find a place for it. So I just kept swimming. And I was sort of really fast and really well played from the leaky goals. And yeah. And at about three hours, it was just going on. And Phil was looking at me at two hours. Like, how are you doing? And I'm like, I just my head in two and a half hours. Just my head, you know, and he's just looking at me like not knowing what to do with me. I think he just really didn't know. And you know, it's probably not a good sign from his perspective. He's someone in a quarter of a way across or through the way and struggling already mentally. And it's like, oh God, it's going to be a hard day. And that message must have got across to Michelle who was on the big boat with Rick Richardson and Captain. And Michelle's a psychologist. And she's got that high performance sports background. And so it's quite a nice combination to have. And she's a really thoughtful measure. Pretty just not quite, but really considered. She's not someone who will be the life of the party or stand out. She's very good at one-on-one and very good and very good at one-on-one with that level. She stood up on the boat at three hours. She got the boat to come over to me. I'll get really emotional about this. But she knew what was going on. I didn't want to tell Phil what was going on because I just thought that'll put me a jippity. So I wanted to protect there. I just wanted to know I was worried about the guy who died in my sister. She ran with us other ship going on. That's me. So Michelle just stood up and she's like, think about our kids. Think about the training you've done. Think about why you're doing this. It's like three messages, man. Yeah. Yeah. So I just hit my feet, hit a leg. What's your wager finger when she was standing there? No, she just stood up and was holding the railing and you know things were bowling along by that stage a little bit up and down and she was pretty sick. And I just put my knee down and carry on. So to something really interesting changed, I mean. So you know, this one's an emotional song for me. Nothing to do with a physical challenge. Yeah. So I thought about Tobian, Simon and Loki and Michelle and I thought about my family growing up. My dad, the sort of problem with my mum and my sister and my brother. And I thought about my two son coaches and I thought about Richard who's a guy, my son squad who's just so incredibly helpful in terms of just, he just give me one mind message. Where are you at? And he just hit me up something and he just knew to do an ex Olympian, awesome guy, to so thoughtful, but he just knew you every time. Yeah. And yeah. And John, I'm Caitlyn, and Ivan, and just these people that help you. Yeah. And you go, holy smoke, you know. And so I just said their names over and over again for an hour. Yeah. You know, it's just like my, my heart just opened. Yeah. It was just like did gratitude and love. Yeah. It's just beautiful. Did you give me goosebumps all over here, man? No, that's that's the genuine heart. Yeah. That's why you do it. Yeah. So and that's people don't always understand what you go through to get to the other side. God, it's massive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I went through a stage, early on in my strong career where I've got five kids right, I've got twins twice, and on each stroke I would say a different name, you know, and I would do that. For as long as I could. So I get that. I very much get that. Yeah. And so that was, yeah. So, so then you, you found a, a bed of space, an assuming of the an hour of that. Yeah. Just switched me out of that, swirling, unresolved emotional state, until like a deep love and gratitude state, which is just, you know, there's a whole lot of positivity and dopamine and just, just a whole lot of love just pouring out, you know. And, yeah, my brother has some injuries to take on it. And he's sort of says that's a really deeply spiritual thing, you know, like some people have this thing called a heart awakening. And, you know, it sort of felt and retrospect maybe a little bit something like that, where, give a sense, I'm just a massively way more emotionally connected, deeper bed of person. And it's because this thing has been so repressed and it's blown open. And I'll just quite, let's see, there are all sorts of random stuff, it all sorts of random times, like stuff that just sets me off. And I had been a little bit like that before, but now it's just like floodgates, it's amazing. That's cool though. Yeah, it's really cool. It's really good. And it's really unsettling for some people. And some people are like, cool, this dude's like really in touch. And it's been super helpful in so many things in my life because people, I'm a lot more genuine now. But I go towards the heart stuff way more, whereas before I probably go really black and white and logical and not very, my EQ stuff wasn't very, and it's not, it's not my really involved like, about it, about it, switch something. Switch to the bed of hair. Yeah, kind of open up the channel, I suppose, to a different way. My dad is very much like that. And he would be sitting watching some dumbass movie, comedy, and something would happen and my dad would be sitting there crying, you know. And I'd be clear and say, you know, what's the story? And I go, I'm just going sweaty eyes. So I did that. And then Phil looked at me and went, you're swimming really fast. It's a perfect day. Yeah. Stop slapping your right arm. Yes. And so for the first time in my life, I actually did this beautiful entry for the next one hour. So my informers. Yes. Like Phil just giving me a lashing was, you know, holy smoke man, we've had a great day out here. So I did that for an hour. And then he's just like, can you just smile? Can you just smile? Like, we are just, this swimmer's going so well. I'm like, really? Yeah. You don't know the half. I'm just seeing the top. Yeah. And he was just pretty stoked that he was going to get back to the arena. Who is? And I was just like, I'm still thinking about the guy that had died. And so I've still got an hour or two to go. And I'm still terrified. And I do not want that to happen. It's true. And then I start getting our tight cheese. Oh, good. So I had a tight cheese there a couple of times, two or three times in the last two hours. And I had to wind it back. And he said, you're on, you're on half, going after Jono's time, which was six and a half hours. Which I didn't get in the queue of that then because the tight sort of changed a bit. And so I picked it up and went really hard for about half an hour. And that's when it happened. And then I was just like, no, bag of less. I'm just going to back off. So let's just go back to the, you know, three and three quarter. Let's not go at the 4k pace. And yeah. So I just, I just went that and yeah. And then got towards the finish. And I just couldn't believe it, and I cracked a joke to, yeah. And it's on Facebook live. And, you know, I just sort of bob up and hear a lot. And I'm like, hey, is anyone seen the South Island around here? In just pissing yourself. She's on the IRB with co-conhinged in just having a chuckle and film just locks at me. And he's just like, just put your tail in the kitchen. And I'm like, so, do you tell me the smile? I'm kind of a little smiling. And I get that coming back. Seriously? I'm doing the moment. Yeah. So coming up to the finish like, I couldn't say the South Island to about an hour and a half to go, which is probably a saving grace, I think. Because it was really must-end rainy. One of the big pockets of joy was seeing Phil have to get up, stand up at the boat, and put on a rain jacket, rain pants, and see him doing the same. I'm like, ah, these guys are suffering. It's beautiful. I was so happy. I'm like, it feels like sweet revenge for all the shit I've been through. So that's not so great. Anyway, it was true, I was here to get a chuckle. I was throwing it on the half under water in the middle of the cook's tray. But I was, you know, I'd said, I was really grateful to God, I said the ocean while it's outside, you know, it's part of the gratitude. I think you're for being here, you know, allowing me to try and come and swim here today, you know? Yeah. Just really grateful for that opportunity. And yeah, coming up to the end, I thought it was going to be this beautiful Utopian angel singing life-changling moment. And it was just a washing machine leading up to these rocks that had kelp on it, you know? And I swam in and I fell said, be cute, just touch the rock, turn around and get straight back to the boat. So I, I see it and said he felt like it was a place of danger. Yeah. And so I was like, right, I'm in tune with the day. Yes, yes, you know, touch and go. Yeah. And it's totally what happened. So I just swam in and just touched the rock, felt all this kelp on my hand and stuff and just swam back the boat and they just dragged me up on the boat. And yeah, I couldn't pull myself in or anything, they just pulled me in and I just looked at the show and said, I can't believe I'm done. Yeah. Yeah. It was so good. A relief. That is on so many levels. That is such a great story, man. That's awesome. That's such a good story. And so you couldn't do the, the joy, the dance of joy on the beach because obviously it was too too whitewashy, too too dangerous. Yeah, it was just a whole pile of rocks. Yeah. There was no beach there. What was the temperature? Were you, sort of, were you comfortable in the cold? I was funny because they beat at the start. They took the temperature and felt like, what's the temperature? And I'm like, I'm sick. I don't want to know. It's here or what? It's going to be 13 or 14. 18. Oh, nice. 18 in December. That's a marty for a treat. Yeah. So it was 18. And the last hour it was cold. And I had heard that it was cold in that last half an hour or whatever, whatever goes on for currents there. So what time did you land up swimming? 7, 15. Which is, which is right up there. Yeah. What's, what's the record? Six. No, that'll be, no, that's the end of what's Andy. Yeah, it's five. Yeah. Andy's Andy, right? Yeah. So I was funny because I came back and the guys at Swim Test, they put up a post and see, that's the 10th fastest swim from the north to the south. Yes. And it was really cool for me to swim to the south, aren't we? Yes. Because I live in the north aren't. I always wanted to swim to the south. Yes. And one of those days would have been a south to the north. Swim, I'm like, I don't want to do it. Yeah. I want to swim to a Tauai Panamo. Yeah. And I've got a green stone. Yeah, it's looking at that, yes. Yeah. So it's very cool. Yeah. So hey, Marto, fishhawk and, yeah, just beautiful. And the night she wrote on Christmas Day, give me this. It was, it was all about resilience. Yep. So it's not about the swim. Yep. It's about the bloody long journey in the resilient four years. Yeah. Four years. Yeah. So yeah. And that's not what I signed up for. And it's definitely not what I've signed up for. It's definitely not what I can sign up for. Yes. So, you know, there's a lot of trade offs as I said. Yes. And we flew back the next morning and it was the last day of school. Yeah. And our schools have really tied a little community. Yes. Michael Park's time at school now, literally. Yeah. And just rocking out and celebrating the kids. Yes. So got on the side. Big city for life. Yeah. Doing up the school at 10.30 a.m. and celebrating those kids last day. Yep. And took my home at lunchtime and you know, he's, he's beautiful life. Yep. You look like an awesome dad. Yeah. Things. Yeah. That's very cool, dude. Yeah. So, you know, reach us, be expect really interesting. You know, what's this way? So it makes you mean. Yep. Um, so from there, it was a rebuilding of ego. Trying to find some confidence again. Yeah. Yeah. And it helped a lot. Sure. But it gave you so many other things as well. Yeah. Yeah. So I think like all that training, all those setbacks, all that hardship, I can cope so much at work. Yeah. And I can, I can handle a lot of stuff that I could not handle before. Yeah. And I've been really lucky to have an awesome team around. And we've just started achieving so much stuff. And so leaving the bank going and trying to help other transport and cycling and just leave the world a better place that's been a good mission. Well, dude, that's been an awesome story. Thank you so much for sharing with us. Oh, good. Thank you. Um, it's not quite the story I was anticipating hearing from you, but it was very cool. Thank you. I think that's the best story I've ever heard. Yeah. So many times it's just about the physical and the swimming. Yeah. I mean, that's been a amazing story. That's best I've heard. But I find it really good. You know, that's been a pretty helpful. I have a lot of beautiful moments out of the ocean. I've seen you like come up over a row and you're up by cable boys. Yeah, cable boys, we're, I always have my moments from we. Yeah. Oh, that's good to know. Nice. I'll avoid it in future. Mark, thank you so much. Right. Appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for having me, guys. Cool. Hi, my name is Caitlyn O'Reilly. I'm the youngest person who have completed the Ocean 7 Challenge of this really cool podcast has helped you learn something new. Maybe it's introduced you to new swimmers, made you smile. Then please take the opportunity to subscribe to Duncan and Jim's channel. I'm sure they would absolutely appreciate all your support. Cheers. Thanks, Caitlyn. Well, as always, you can give us feedback on our Instagram account at Clevdix or send us an email Clevdixinz at gmail.com. We'd really appreciate hearing from you. And cheers. We'll speak to you again soon.